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Is Dead vs. Has Died

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by dylanG3893, Feb 10, 2007.

  1. dylanG3893

    dylanG3893 Senior Member

    CA
    United States
    Ciao!
    Because the past participle of 'morire' is morto, and morire is an auxiliary verb, how would one differentiate "Is dead" from "Has died".

    In literality, they are both:

    Is dead = È morto(a)
    Has died = È morto(a)

    How would you communicate the difference?
     
  2. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator Staff Member

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    You can't differentiate, unless you use a more formal verb:

    That dog seems to be dead.
    Quel cane sembra morto.

    My dog has died 5 minutes ago.
    Il mio cane è deceduto 5 minuti fa.
     
  3. Never Got a Dinner

    Never Got a Dinner Senior Member

    Boston
    America, English
    My response to that is: in English you have

    I walked.
    I have walked.
    I did walk.

    In Italian, don't try to differentiate between the three. It's frustrating because we all want to translate exactly. But take my advice: if you try to differentiate between "he has gone" and "he did go," you'll lose your cervello.
     
  4. venice Senior Member

    Venezia-Mestre
    italiano
    Hi,
    I walked = camminavo/ camminai
    I have walked = ho camminato
    I did walk = ? è un rafforzativo? = ho proprio camminato/ camminai davvero.How can I translate it?:confused:
     
  5. dylanG3893

    dylanG3893 Senior Member

    CA
    United States
    Yes, I do agree with you Nevergotadinner. And it would be very hard to translate that, venice.

    I walked could be camminavo/camminai/or ho camminato, it depends on the circumstances so I walked is really broadly covering past tense in it's whole.

    I did walk, is also the same thing as I just stated, only that it putting emphasis on the fact that the action was done truely.

    I have walked is probably Ho camminato and
    I had walked is probably Avevo camminato.

    Past tense does make me perdere il mio cervello :/
     
  6. TrentinaNE Senior Member

    USA
    English (American)
    How did this thread go from dying to walking? ;)

    Please let's keep the examples related to the vocabulary of the original question. :)

    Grazie!
    Elisabetta
     
  7. venice Senior Member

    Venezia-Mestre
    italiano
    Yes, for me they aren't probably right. When I find such a verbal form, I never translate 'camminai', but always as you wrote them.:)
     
  8. venice Senior Member

    Venezia-Mestre
    italiano
    Oh... we're sorry. It was an oversight.Bye
     
  9. stella_maris_74

    stella_maris_74 Mod About Chocolate Staff Member

    Rome
    Italian - Italy
    Hi Dylan!
    Fist off, "morire" is not an auxiliary verb :)
    With strict reference to "è morto", in Italian it indicates both a condition (he is dead) and a change of state (he has died/ he passed away).
    For "has died" you could use some common synonims:
    si è spento (spegnersi)
    è spirato (spirare)

    Examples:
    He's dead! = è morto!
    He has died (he passed away) at 10.15 am = è morto / è spirato / si è spento alle 10.15 di mattina.

    Does this help?

    ciao :)

    dani
     
  10. dylanG3893

    dylanG3893 Senior Member

    CA
    United States
    Grazie, stella.
    Allora un verbo ausiliare è qualche verbo che usa "avere (participo)" ed un verbo che non usa "avere" ma usa "essere e il participo" è un verbo che non è ausiliare??

    Ma grazie a tutti di rispondere la mia domanda :D
     
  11. stella_maris_74

    stella_maris_74 Mod About Chocolate Staff Member

    Rome
    Italian - Italy
    Ciao Dylan,
    no, i verbi ausiliari sono "avere" ed "essere". Just like in English!

    dani
     
  12. Murphy

    Murphy Senior Member

    Sicily, Italy
    English, UK
    No, "avere" and "essere" are the auxiliary verbs, just as "have" and "be" are in English. Auxiliaries are followed by participles (past and present) in compound tenses.
     
  13. sdon Senior Member

    ITALIAN
    Riprendo questo topic per chiedervi se sia meglio tradurre:

    Il papaveri sono un simbolo per ricordare i soldati morti in guerra

    Poppies are a symbol of remembrance for the soldiers died in War

    or:poppies are a symbol of remembrance for the dead soldiers in War

    Questa cosa non mi è mai stata molto chiara....
     
  14. pandinorombante

    pandinorombante Senior Member

    Around Europe
    Italy - Italian
    I'd go for the second option... in my humble opinion the first one is not correct, you should say "for the soldiers who died in war.." (Why War? If you don't specify it which one, you shouldn't use the capital letter).

    Let's see what natives suggest.. :)
     
  15. cavillous Senior Member

    Switzerland
    Italian
    Poppies are a symbol of remembrance for fallen soldiers.

    What do you think of it?
     
  16. brian

    brian Senior Member

    Montréal
    AmE (New Orleans)
    ...for fallen soldiers.
    ...for soldiers fallen in war.

    ...for dead soldiers.
    ...for soldiers who died in war.


    "Dead soldiers" è un po'.. ehm.. esplicito. Come ha suggerito cavillous, meglio dire "fallen." "Who died" però va bene pure.
     
  17. kan3malato

    kan3malato Senior Member

    Italia/Italiano
    Ciao.
    Are you sure stella you can use present perfect with specific time expressions?:confused:
     
  18. Leo57 Senior Member

    Yorkshire
    UK English
    Hi there
    We use the present perfect to say that an action happened at an unspecified time before now. (The exact time is not important.)

    He has died (he passed away) at 10.15 am :cross:
    My dog has died 5 minutes ago:cross:

    Let's take a look.

    You are very sad today, what's up?
    My dog has died.
    When did he die?
    He died at 10.15 this morning.

    It was written two years ago though so I expect everyone has learned something since then!;)

    Ciao
    Leo:)
     
  19. kan3malato

    kan3malato Senior Member

    Italia/Italiano
    Tenkiù Leo:)
    My doubts were right then...
     
  20. stella_maris_74

    stella_maris_74 Mod About Chocolate Staff Member

    Rome
    Italian - Italy
    Yes indeed :eek:
    I managed to learn more about the use of English tenses in the meantime.
    Thank you for correcting me so the thread isn't misleading! :)
     

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