Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by sethmachine, Sep 2, 2008.
I was wondering how does one say: Join the Puzzle Club! in Standard Arabic.
انضم إلى فرقة الألغاز
This would be said to a single male. The form of the verb changes if the addressee is a single female or a group.
Elroy, why did you choose فرقة and not نادي ?
Because I think "club" here refers to a group of people with similar interests, and not to an organization or establishment (think of student groups on a campus, for example).
That was the first thing I thought of, anyway. I suppose that it could theoretically be an actual نادي, but we won't know that unless sethmachine gives us some more information about the context.
I will use نادي in all cases.
I think"join the club"in english could me used in two ways,the metaphorical one or in the regular one.
1_if someone says something not clear,we can tell him"welcome to the puzzle club.
2_or if there is a club where people meet and try to resolve puzzles,so you say"I join the puzzle club"
Perhaps an influence of English, but I prefer نادي .
I'm sorry, but unless the reference is actually to an organization or establishment, I strongly disagree with نادي. A high school or university may have various student clubs, which are most certainly not نوادي! That's the kind of thing I thought of when I read the title of this thread.
What if this Puzzle Club is just a group of people meeting in someone's house to play puzzle games? Surely you wouldn't use نادي in such a case...
Exactly. The English word club has (at least) two distinct meanings, and they cannot both be rendered as نادي.
Sorry to disagree with you, Elias, but I believe that the word نادي doesn't necessarily have to refer to an establishment.
We have نادي القصة and we have (maybe metaphorically) نادي القلوب الحزينة . So I do believe that we can safely translate "club" as نادي in almost all contexts.
So would you refer to a student group consisting of five people interested in Irish drama as a نادي?
Why not? If they want to refer to themselves as a نادي, who are we to say no. At Middlebury they had many clubs (referred to as نواد :lنادي الخط ونادي الطبخ والخ ), many only composed of only a few people.
While I cannot be 100% sure of the Arabic word I tend to agree with Cherine as per my understanding of the word.
As far as the English goes, I do not believe that there are two distinct meanings of the word. To me a club is group of people who meet regularly for some common purpose, regardless of size or status as an organization. That is, if they decide to apply the term club to their group. They could also apply the word group if they so desire.
Josh, you may have misunderstood what I meant. To me, there is a clear difference in English between a) a group of people with similar interests (as you have described) and b) a physical establishment - such as an athletic club like this one.
I would definitely use نادي to describe b but not a. I've never come across the word used that way, and to me, the Middlebury names sound like literal translations from English.
الغني does not list that meaning:
نَادٍ، النَّادِي - ج: أَنْدِيَةٌ، نَوَادٍ، النَّوَادِي. [ن د و]. (فا مِنْ نَادَى). 1."نَادِي الْمُهَنْدِسِينَ" : مَكَانُ، مَجْلِسُ اِجْتِمَاعِهِمْ. "ذَهَبَ إِلَى النَّادِي" "النَّوَادِي الرِّيَاضِيَّةُ". 2."النَّادِي اللَّيْلِيُّ" : مَكَانٌ للتَّسْلِيَةِ وَاللَّهْوِ. "وَنَوَادِي اللَّيْلِ تَبْقَى عِنْدَنَا مَفْتُوحَةً حَتَّى الصَّبَاح". ( نزار قباني).
Both definitions refer to physical locations; neither refers to a group of people with common interests.
So what you're saying is that the word نادي can only refer to a physical building, and cannot refer to an abstract concept such as a grouping of people?
In my experience, yes.
Well, maybe that was the original meaning of the word, but in my (limited) experience it can be more broad than that.
By the way, I might not have understood that definition that you listed very well, but it seemed to me only to list a few examples, but did not actually explain what a naadi is.
Perhaps it's been broadened to include that additional meaning of the English word club. But like I said, I'm not at all familiar with such a usage.
The dictionary entry contains both examples and explanations/definitions:
نَادِي الْمُهَنْدِسِينَ" : مَكَانُ، مَجْلِسُ اِجْتِمَاعِهِمْ
The red part is an example and the blue part is a definition.
Out of curiosity I just searched various combinations with the word نادي in which it would not be used to refer to a physical building and got many returns:
نادي الكتاب (perhaps a calque from English)
Well, in the Quran, it says "ناصية كاذبة خاطئه * فليدعو ناديه * سندعو الزبانية" meaning "let him call his group/people/allies. So I would think that it does not apply to a physical space but the people who attend that place.
Separate names with a comma.