1. Encolpius

    Encolpius Senior Member

    Prague
    Hungarian
    Hello, I couldn't find the etymology in the Brückner. Can you tell me what the origin of the kciuk is? Thanks.
     
  2. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    Hi, Encolpius,
    The dictionaries of the Polish language I have at hand don't give it either, and I don't have access to other etymological dictionaries than the one by Brückner. It prompts me that the etymology might be oblique.

    I have found, however, a review of an etymological dictionary of Polish by W. Boryś that compares it to another one by A. Bańko. The author of the article gives the gist of their entries for 'kciuk':
    So as you can see, there's no general consensus as to the origin of 'kciuk'.

    On another note, Polish 'kciuk' seems to be unique when compared to other European languages.
     
  3. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    This is something interesting. What coal-miners exactly did she have in mind? How can gezeihung be even closely related to kćiuk -- maybe it can -- I just cannot see her logics? Jargon of what language? Polish? German? Silesian (where 99% of coal-miners in Poland live?) From what time period? "chrzcic or krzcic? This is even a bigger mystery. I doubt the word comes from those two sources. It really sounds like very stretched folk etymology. Did she mean that the thumb was the finger with which they baptized people? I know you cannot answer for the author, but what do you think? For me the word has a Turkish sound, but I don't want to introduce even more folk etymology, since it may be a coincidence.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  4. wolfbm1 Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    You might be right, Liliana, about the Turkish sound or maybe even Ukrainian or Tartar.
    Maybe kciuk is related to kindżał (rodzaj sztyletu, długi, obosieczny nóż, prosty lub zakrzywiony, z krótką rękojeścią, używany przez plemiona kaukaskie oraz przez Turków
    <ros. kinżáł, z tur.> ) Żródło: Słownik Wyrazów Obcych PWN. Or maybe kindziuk. But this is my wild guess. Also compare rymy.com.pl
    There is an interesting word "ciuk": Ciuk, kij – „Wezne ciuka na psa”.
    Żródło: (Słowniczek gwary ludowej ziemi sanockiej Leona Magierowskiego) Article: Słowniki gwar Przemyskiego i Pogranicza wschodniego młodszego (część południowa) by Halina Karaś
     
  5. BezierCurve Senior Member

    It brings to my mind other words related to "short": kusy, kucać, kucyk. Of course, it can all be just a coincidence.
     
  6. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    ge-ziehung
    I wish I could see the dictionary entries.
     
  7. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Yes, I agree with person who said, that it can somehow be related to the tool -- the word ge-zeihung (propably mispelled) or sometimes Silesin people used German words with some variation or unsual forms, but how could this be related to kćiuk? For me the word has a Turkic sound.
     
  8. BezierCurve Senior Member

    You mean phonetically? It could. Ge- having very short [e] could be left out all together, then the [g] preceding voiceless [ts] would transform into voiceless [k]. Then [tsi] could easily become softened [t͡ɕ], and the final [ung] would get devoiced (losing its [n] nasality) to [uk]... But I also saw a few similar Turkish words (names?).
     
  9. BezierCurve Senior Member

    It just occured to me now... Encolpius, are you supsecting "kicsi" to have something in common with "kciuk"?
     
  10. Encolpius

    Encolpius Senior Member

    Prague
    Hungarian
    No...
     
  11. Thomas1

    Thomas1 Senior Member

    polszczyzna warszawska
    Bańko also mentions the etymology of the form 'krzciuk' being related to 'chrzcić'. It is related to the fact that a priest who’s baptising a child makes the sign of the cross on his or her forehead (you can find ‘krzciny’ in literature, if I remember aright Reymont and Sienkiewicz used it). He then says that 'kcyjuk'* must have been a typical sign on quoins in Old Polish mines used to mark ramifications of shafts, a sign in the form of a hand with the thumb bent sideways which indicates the direction of drawing the mine output. Later Bańko says: The simplest way in which the name of the Old Polish miners' sign can be explained etymologically in the following way: kcyju(n)k = nm. ge-ziehung :)ziehen 'draw'). This might agree with what the foreors from the German forum wrote.
    *old name for 'kciuk' offered by Tucholczyk, 'kciuk' is, as Bańko concludes, a bad decyphering of 'kcyjuk' by Syreński.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013

Share This Page