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la mairie de Paris

Discussion in 'French-English Vocabulary / Vocabulaire Français-Anglais' started by millababe, May 23, 2007.

  1. millababe Junior Member

    Sweden - English
    Hello.

    Just wondering what Mairie de Paris means? is it city of Paris?

    mairie alone means town hall / city hall but I thought you may use it as to say to the full name: City of Paris.

    if any1 has a clue please let me know thnx

    Milla
     
  2. Teafrog

    Teafrog Senior Member

    London
    UK English (& rusty French…)
     
  3. mattaku

    mattaku Senior Member

    French (France)
    City of Paris translates as la ville de Paris. Mairie definitely means town hall, but in some cases, ville can also mean town hall. For example: "L'entreprise a conclu un contrat avec la ville de Paris."
     
  4. Paf le chien

    Paf le chien Senior Member

    Soissons
    France-French (Paris)
    Mairie de Paris = Paris City Hall

    But Paris is divided into smaller districts called "arrondissements", numbered in roman numerals, from "Ier arrondissement to "XXe arrondissement" (in fact there is a XXIe, but it is very special, outside Paris, an unkown by Paris inhabitants. It does not have any Town Hall).

    For each of them, there is a Town hall we call with its "arrondissement number" (in roman numeric) :

    Mairie du Ve
    Mairie du XVe
    Mairie de XVIIIe
    etc.

    The creation of a "central" City Hall in Paris is quite recent (by Jacques Chirac before he was President, ~20/25 years ago) to make the new the honorific position of "Maire de Paris"...

    HtH
     
  5. Denis the fatalist Senior Member

    Monaco Monte-Carlo
    France/French
    Before this time Paris and a few garrison-towns had this pecular status to be mainly run by the local "Prefet" (Prefet de Police in Paris, Préfet militaire in garrison towns. The mayors had a really secondary role.
    I think there was already a Maire de Paris (ie a general one) but purely honorific and totally unknown. Jacques Chirac took the place and made it important as a politicall weapon (honorific vs horrorific ?)
    Yet the Prefet de Police still keeps very strong powers im Paris - and can allow something the maire refused and refuse something the maire authorized...
     
  6. Paf le chien

    Paf le chien Senior Member

    Soissons
    France-French (Paris)
    Thank you, Denis the fatalist for those explanations : I didn't even know there were a "Maire de Paris" before Chirac.

    So "honorific vs horrorific" make sens No "politics" on fora ;)
     
  7. Teafrog

    Teafrog Senior Member

    London
    UK English (& rusty French…)
    Paf, where is that elusive and "special" XXIe outside Paris? Is it Clichy? Why is it "special"?

    Another (very small) touristic contribution, is that these arrondissements curl around Paris in the shape of a snail's shell (en colimaçon?), with the 1st arr in the centre.
     
  8. Denis the fatalist Senior Member

    Monaco Monte-Carlo
    France/French
    The only XXIe I could think of is "la commune libre de Montmartre", which would have anaother number.
    I would also say two things :
    - when Paris had only tewelve "arrondissements", "s'être marié dans le 13éme" meant not to live together out of the sacred links of marriage

    - if the "arrondissements" are numbered in "colimaçon", it's very important because it's precisely the difference between gallic and roman places (San Francisco square corners being Roman, and most villages here around the Mediterranean sea being ihelical shaped.) And according to Henry Miller, Clichy is quiet...
     
  9. Denis the fatalist Senior Member

    Monaco Monte-Carlo
    France/French
    Big thingers stroke again, I hope you changed what was wrong in typing..:eek:
     
  10. Paf le chien

    Paf le chien Senior Member

    Soissons
    France-French (Paris)
    Between "La Celle-St-Cloud" and "Vélizy".

    It is a very big private parcel which has been yield to Paris City by its owner at his death. Today, it is only a lodging place but, even if postal addresses are in La-Celle-St-Cloud, it (and its inhabitants) administratively depends on Paris City (I don't know which "arrondissement"...).

    It is very funny to read, on a pane, at the entrance, "XXIe arrondissement de Paris" :)
     
  11. eclypse Senior Member

    UK
    english
    Bonjour,

    Quelle serait la meilleur traduction pour la phrase suivante:

    La mairie (de Paris) a présenté, la semaine passée, la méthode d'élaboration de son futur "plan de lutte contre le dérèglement climatique"

    The Paris government / townhall / council ???

    Thank you in advance
     
  12. Paf le chien

    Paf le chien Senior Member

    Soissons
    France-French (Paris)
    Paris city hall
     
  13. Moon Palace

    Moon Palace Senior Member

    Lyon
    French
    City Hall is AE, BE is town hall I believe.
     
  14. Paf le chien

    Paf le chien Senior Member

    Soissons
    France-French (Paris)
    Even for a city ?
     
  15. Moon Palace

    Moon Palace Senior Member

    Lyon
    French
    No, you're right, it is just that 'city hall' is the word used in the US, but it also used in the UK for big cities. My mistake. Sorry :eek:
     
  16. paulio Senior Member

    UK, English
    yes, we don't have the phrase City Hall over here at all. I don't think town hall works though (partly because townhall does really apply to towns). I wouldn't call the GLA or the Mayor's Office in London the townhall... I think I'd be tempted to say the government of Paris.
     
  17. Punky Zoé

    Punky Zoé Senior Member

    Pau
    France - français
    IMHO, here mairie doesn't refer to the building but to the institution, then maybe council could work.
     
  18. Moon Palace

    Moon Palace Senior Member

    Lyon
    French
    Why not the Mayor's Office? Since it must have been announced by the spokesman of the Mayor anyway.
     
  19. mym Junior Member

    France / French
    Could you talk of a "municipal council"? Or a "municipal corporation"?
     
  20. Califano New Member

    France
    UK, English
    Personally, and in this context, I'd translate it as "the Paris city council".
     
  21. Paf le chien

    Paf le chien Senior Member

    Soissons
    France-French (Paris)
    Does "The Paris city Mayor's office" be correct in UE ? If yes, I think it is the translation in the context (after reading the thread carefully), because they don't speak of any council (in Paris, the council is now completely hidden behind the Mayor — thanks, Mr Chirac ;))
     
  22. Pedro y La Torre

    Pedro y La Torre Senior Member

    Paris, France
    English (Ireland)
    Yes it would.
     
  23. shoenning Senior Member

    French, France
    In such a context, I would not refer to the City Hall but to the city itself, and "La Mairie de Paris" would go "The City of Paris"
     
  24. Moon Palace

    Moon Palace Senior Member

    Lyon
    French
    Good guess, this reminds me of a decision by San Francisco regarding plastic bags, and I never read anything about a town hall or a council, merely 'SF'. Could work :thumbsup:
     
  25. eclypse Senior Member

    UK
    english
    Just to add to the confusion, the city of Manchester, which is England's second or third biggest city (depending on who you ask), has a town hall!
     
  26. Moon Palace

    Moon Palace Senior Member

    Lyon
    French
    Thanks for the reminder, Eclypse, it will teach me to stick with my first impressions. All the more so as I spent a whole year in Manchester, should have known better!!:rolleyes:
     
  27. eclypse Senior Member

    UK
    english
    You have all suggested some really good ideas, so now I have to chose between:

    "Last week,
    -The city of Paris
    -Paris' Mayor's Office
    -Paris' City Council
    -Paris Government
    put forward its draft proposal for its future "plan against climate change"

    "La mairie a présenté, la semaine passée, la méthode d'élaboration de son futur "plan de lutte contre le dérèglement climatique"

    Thank you for all your help
     
  28. Paf le chien

    Paf le chien Senior Member

    Soissons
    France-French (Paris)
    I'd choose:

    1. "Paris' Mayor's Office"

    2. "The city of Paris"

    I'd not choose:

    - Paris Government (because there is no Paris' government)
    - Paris' City Council (because todays, Paris' council is completely hidden behind its Mayor)
     
  29. orc13 Senior Member

    France
    USA, English
    If it helps to get yet another opinion, I'd agree with Califano and say "the Paris city council" (this was my first instinct), or The City of Paris. For me, "la mairie" represents a group of people headed by the mayor (even if the mayor dominates), and "the Mayor's Office" or city hall would only be a location.
     
  30. Moon Palace

    Moon Palace Senior Member

    Lyon
    French
    (exceptionally? ;)) I agree with Paf :thumbsup:
     
  31. Pedro y La Torre

    Pedro y La Torre Senior Member

    Paris, France
    English (Ireland)
    Just a small thing, you generally cannot use I'd in the negative. In this case it must be, I would.
     
  32. Paf le chien

    Paf le chien Senior Member

    Soissons
    France-French (Paris)
    Thank you Pedro y La Torre for the tip ! :)

    That makes "cut-and-paste" less easy for lazy people (like me) ;)
     
  33. eclypse Senior Member

    UK
    english
    Makes sense, thank you and thank you all
     
  34. LMorland

    LMorland Senior Member

    Back in Berkeley until June
    American living in France
    I agree with Paf_le_chien, with the following emendations:
    A word to the wise: English uses quotation marks differently than does French in such an instance. Retaining the apostrophes, in English, implies an ironic distance from what is quoted.

    Here's a hypothetical example: The mayor put forward his "plan for cleaner streets" when we all know that it's just a sop to the garbage mafia.

    So I would definitely remove the apostrophes! :)
     
  35. eclypse Senior Member

    UK
    english
    The Paris Mayor's Office and the Paris City Council sounds so wrong to me, and that is just because I have never seen any reference to "the Manchester City Council" but maybe that's just me ?? ;)

    In any case, if the general consensus is to use "city council" then that's what I'll do, thank you all for your contributions.
     
  36. LMorland

    LMorland Senior Member

    Back in Berkeley until June
    American living in France
    Well, "city council" doesn't sound so right to me, either -- I just accepted it as a possibility. My vote (see above) was for "the City of Paris".

    I just went to their website, and I found the following on this page http://www.paris.fr/portail/Environ..._type_id=5&document_id=14610&portlet_id=14265 :

    La Ville s'engage dans la lutte contre l'effet de serre

    L’administration parisienne a entrepris un vaste programme
    de diminution et de maîtrise de sa consommation en énergie
    de chauffage dans ses équipements (plus de 2 000 écoles,
    crèches, piscines, bains douches, musées, mairies…).


    So I think that their statement supports my vote! :)

    P.S. I just did a Google search, and the consensus in America is to write either "Mayor X announced...." or "The Mayor's office announced...." But if your target audience is British, maybe you should check out Google UK; the first three pages of my results were all American.
     
  37. Moon Palace

    Moon Palace Senior Member

    Lyon
    French
    I agree with LMorland, the question is whether the French usage of mentioning a town as the subject of an action - a metonymy - is also valid in English. I would tend to say it is, as supports the article I read on San Francisco.
     
  38. LMorland

    LMorland Senior Member

    Back in Berkeley until June
    American living in France
    Oh yes, Moon Palace -- you are absolutely right to make sure that such a metonymy exists, and I am sure that it does (see my P.S. above, which I added after you wrote your comment).

    In fact, when I was taught the difference between metonymy and synecdoche, the example we were given for the former was "The White House says..." The same example is given by Wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metonymy#Metonymy_and_synecdoche

    Bonsoir,

    Laura
     
  39. orlando09 Senior Member

    France, PACA
    English (England)
    Me too, it is the simplest - says exactly what it is - a city version of a town council. You can have city councils in the UK too anyway - leeds city council, for example.

    I don;t think we tend to say use "the city of Paris" - or the city of manchester, etc to refer to the council of said place in Britian as much as the French do. For example, in Nice, the city council is often referred to just as Nice Ville, whereas I think in Britian you would say : Manchester City Council has decided.... rather than the City of Manchester has decided... it just makes it absolutely clear you are referring to the official body, not , for example, to all the peop[le of the city in general.

    Also, mairie is just the ordinary French word for a town council in France, so I don't think it's necessary to use an unusual (for Britian) phrase like "mayor's office". However I don;t know that much about Paris local politics - if the mayor really does dominate eveything personally, then you could perhaps just say "the mayor..."
     
  40. LMorland

    LMorland Senior Member

    Back in Berkeley until June
    American living in France
    I guess it's another BE/AE difference, then. Just for the record, here's an example I chose at random from the Net:

    The City of Lynchburg, Virginia, furnishes a smaller-scaled but equally creative example. In 1997, the City began to construct a 42-mile fiber optic network .... The City essentially paid for the network within 18 months.... Local businesses and residents urged the City to make its system available to the public.... In response, the City embarked on a nationwide search for a strategic partner... The City eventually sold the system....

    Just as you were saying with la ville de Nice !
     
  41. orlando09 Senior Member

    France, PACA
    English (England)
    Fair enough - I think then, you are right, this usage would be more common in the US. I'm not saying it's impossible or incomprehensible in British English, but not used so much IMO
     
  42. eclypse Senior Member

    UK
    english
    So are you saying that the "Mairie" of Paris is the only "mairie" that qualifies as a City Hall (as opposed to a Town Hall)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2008
  43. Gerard Samuel Senior Member

    New York City
    American English
    To my mind, the city council is in the legislative branch of government, while the mayor's office is in the executive branch of government. They are fundamentally different.
     
  44. LMorland

    LMorland Senior Member

    Back in Berkeley until June
    American living in France
    True enough, Gerard Samuel, but the use of language does not often reflect that distinction -- in either French or English.

    I refer you to the sample I quoted above (taken at random from the Internet):
    In such a case, as with "la Ville de Paris," the reader is not thinking about how the "sausage" (of legislation) came to be. Did the city council -- i.e., the legislative branch -- propose, and the mayor -- i.e., executive branch -- simply dispose?

    I submit that the reader in this present instance doesn't care about how the "plan" was created: he just wants to know what it is, and presumably how it will impact him or his business. The original phrase elides the two components of the mairie -- the legislative and the executive -- into one unified subject : la mairie.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
  45. WME Senior Member

    French-France
    I would add a capital V for disambiguation. "Un contrat avec la Ville". That's what they do in legal documents.
    By the way, when referring to the ADMINISTRATION, is it better to write "The City Hall of Paris", or "Paris City Hall" ?
     

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