la

Discussion in 'Română (Romanian)' started by seitt, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Greetings

    From ‘Dex Online’:
    CEAÚȘ, ceauși, s. m. 1. Funcționar inferior la turci, care îndeplinea funcția de ușier, de curier sau de aprod (1) al curții.

    Please could you explain the meaning and grammatical use of ‘la’ in this particular context?

    Best wishes, and many thanks,

    Simon
     
  2. farscape mod-errare humanum est

    Ottawa, Canada
    Romanian
    Here is a short answer: a translation of the first sentence, preserving the meaning, would be Low ranking public servant in Turkey.

    In Romanian we say: Bine ați venit la noi! -> Welcome to us (our place, etc.)
    la turci -> to /the/ Turks

    Later,
    .
     
  3. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks – could la turci also be interpreted as “(belonging) to the Turks”, perhaps?
     
  4. farscape mod-errare humanum est

    Ottawa, Canada
    Romanian
    Not quite, more like, in Turkey, or, to the Turks.

    Best,
    .
     
  5. irinet

    irinet Senior Member

    Bucharest
    Romanian
    The preposition "la" (English translations: 'in', 'to' or 'at' - locative preps.) plays a locative role in our language, too.
    1. Am plecat la munte. = I went to the mountains.
    2. Am făcut-o ca la carte. = I did it as in the books.
    3. Ionescu e la tablă. = Tom is at the blackboard.
    Sometimes, but not your case here, as Farscape already pointed out, this prep. may take modal connotations like: He retired = A ieşit la pensie.
     
  6. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks – I wonder if “la turci” corresponds with French “chez les Turcs”?

    Please correct my history if I'm wrong, but wasn't Romania once part of the Ottoman Empire? In this case, the dictionary entry may be trying to say something broader than just ‘in Turkey’ ('în Turcia'?)– almost ‘wherever the Turks are and have been’, perhaps?

    PS Courtesy of farscape:
    Similarly, I imagine that la români refers to Romanians in general, including those in Moldova and those who lived at a time when Romania did not exist as a political entity, as opposed to "în România".
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
  7. farscape mod-errare humanum est

    Ottawa, Canada
    Romanian
    Yes, it's pretty much the same.

    And your educated guess servs you right about "la români".

    f.
     
  8. irinet

    irinet Senior Member

    Bucharest
    Romanian
    I would see 'chez les Turcs' more like 'among the Turks', which do not express possession.
    When we say 'La români', we need to specify more, and this is very tricky because we are no longer in the surface structure, but to the deep structure of what you want to underline here, and to this case, it may refer to those Romanians' common characteristics spread all over the world ('comme chez vouz'). No matter your history, my history might be, 'la' is, generally speaking, as locative as with the French 'chez' or with the British 'to', 'at' and 'in'. (surface structure)
    As with the title "Numele de persoană la români", this is definitely pointing to traits, features or characteristics of a population and equals to Romanian names! A similar situation could be: 'Romanian Food' but also 'Food in Romania' for 'Mâncarea la români'!
    To conclude, you have had a point to show an extremely particular and rare use of 'la' in your thread! However, it does not come alone as it gets hidden semantical hooks, viz co-text and motivation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  9. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Much obliged!
     
  10. meirs New Member

    Romanian
    "la turci" should be understood as "la Otomani", that is, within the context of the Ottoman social/administrative/cultural framework - or simply "in the Ottoman empire" in English.
     
  11. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks, useful.
     

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