le rouleau compresseur anglo-saxon

Discussion in 'French-English Vocabulary / Vocabulaire Français-Anglais' started by fandenickylarson, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. fandenickylarson Senior Member

    français
    Good morning,
    I'd like to know if I can translate literally "rouleau compresseur anglo-saxon" par "Anglo-Saxon road roller".
    Le contexte est le suivant: pour une conférence, j'aimerais proposer un papier sur un vieux sociologue français que très peu de personne connait. Pour légitimer ma proposition de papier, je voudrais dire que dans le monde académique dominé par le rouleau compresseur anglo-saxon (c'est une métaphore), il serait cependant intéressant de travailler sur un auteur français.

    In the academic world dominated by the Anglo-Saxon "road roller", it would be however interesting to work on a French author

    C'est correct?

    Merci et bonne année!
     
  2. sylber Senior Member

    Salut, je crois qu'il est plus habituel d'utiliser 'steamroller'.
     
  3. fandenickylarson Senior Member

    français
    Exact, oui "steam roller"
     
  4. LART01

    LART01 Senior Member

    The Hague,Netherlands
    French-France
    Hello
    Je ne pense pas que ça fonctionne avec l'un ou l'autre
    Il faut refaire la phrase avec quelque chose comme overwhelming Anglo-Saxon supremacy
     
  5. sylber Senior Member

    Pas d'accord, en tout cas si j'en crois mon Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary qui propose même des exemples comme 'to steamroller someone into doing sthg' ou 'steamrolling all opposition'.
     
  6. Enquiring Mind

    Enquiring Mind Senior Member

    UK/Česká republika
    English - the Queen's
    Actually I think "steamroller" as a metaphorical noun works okay, as shown in the WR dictionary here. And certainly as a verb, the metaphor is clear:
    The government steamrollered the bill through parliament.

    The thing I take issue with in your sentence is "Anglo-Saxon" which is rather - ahem - "Gallic". It is overwhelmingly used by French speakers, but not, I think, idiomatically in English.
    How about "... dominated by the English-speaking world's discourse/terms of reference ..."?

    And of course Lart's "supremacy" works okay too.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
  7. LART01

    LART01 Senior Member

    The Hague,Netherlands
    French-France
    Sur le contexte politique OK mais avec un sens pas tout à fait équivalent

    http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/anglais-francais/steamroller/614769

    Mais je répondais plus sur l'usage que j'en connais
     
  8. Transfer_02 Senior Member

    Espoo, Finland
    English - British
    I don't like "supremacy". It insinuates all kinds of bias and extremism: political, racial etc . I prefer "dominance".

    But I would agree that "anglo-saxon" steam roller sounds funny because in England we associate "anglo-saxon" with a pre-medieval era. And, after all - they (we) were conquered by the Normans at Hastings which is in direct contradiction with the image you are trying to convey. :confused:
     
  9. Kelly B

    Kelly B Senior Member

    USA English
    Anglo-Saxon is an odd choice to me, too. To whom, specifically, are you referring? The English? English speakers in general, perhaps including Americans?
    If you choose the verb form, to steamroll or steamrolling without -er sounds better to me than to steamroller.
     
  10. Language Hound Senior Member

    American English
    One suggestion: in the academic world where the Anglo [or whatever you mean by "Anglo-Saxon"] steamroller reigns supreme...

    Like Transfer_02, I would avoid the use of the word "supremacy," which I feel has too many negative associations.

    I would add that, if you really hope to have your proposal approved and be able to present at the conference, you might want to tone down your language a bit, especially if there are any Anglos on the board that reviews and approves proposals.;) My suggestion for a toned-down version would be something along the lines of:

    Although papers on Anglo [or whatever you mean by "Anglo-Saxon"] sociologists seem to be de rigueur [yes, we use it that way in English] these days in the academic world of sociology, it would nonetheless behoove us to study the work of a Frenchman, [give his name here].

    Just my two cents!
     
  11. fandenickylarson Senior Member

    français
    Merci pour vos suggestions.
     
  12. bazalpin Senior Member

    Jersey City, NJ
    French - France
    In France, Anglo-Saxon usually includes Americans.
     
  13. funnyhat Senior Member

    Michigan, U.S.A.
    American English
    How about "Anglophone steamroller"?
     
  14. fandenickylarson Senior Member

    français
    the expression "anglo-saxon" does not refer (only) to the English-speaking world. It refers also to a communauty of values seen from France as quite homogeneous. I am aware that from the perspective of a Brit or an American it might be odd but not for French. In America, they usually say "Europe" - notwithstanding countries and/or nationalities - whey they talk about French, Germans, Spaniards, Italiens, etc. I have been always annoyed by this "Europe", from my perspective a catch-all word (I have the feeling that Americans don't make the difference between European countries), but for Americans, it may make sense as the expression "Anglo-Saxon" makes sense for the French. I don't know if my comparison is very relevant but I am sure you will understand what I meant.
    Whatever, I will use the term "steamroller". Thanks for your help
     
  15. Transfer_02 Senior Member

    Espoo, Finland
    English - British
  16. fandenickylarson Senior Member

    français
    too late, I sent this morning my proposal. The organizers of the conference will be hopefully lenient. Nevertheless, I am still convinced that the expression "Anglo-Saxon" may be pertinent even in English. For instance, there is a good article titled "Why don't the French do Think Tanks?: France faces up to the Anglo-Saxon superpowers, 1918–1921." in the Review of International studies, a journal that I like to read.
     
  17. Transfer_02 Senior Member

    Espoo, Finland
    English - British
    Yes, the title seems pertinent. But maybe I'm not such a good judge since, I'm so used to hearing/speaking French, the term does certainly not sound incongruous to me. But I did try to make the point in #8, maybe you missed it.
     
  18. Fred_C

    Fred_C Senior Member

    France
    Français
    Bonjour,
    Pour ma part, j'ai toujours considéré le terme "anglo-saxon" sous son acception française moderne comme un choix très malheureux.
    Dans "anglo-saxon", j'entends surtout "saxon", et la Saxe, c'est pas du tout un pays anglophone.
    D'ailleurs, si on observe attentivement la définition de ce terme, on voit que ce sens est donné comme "sens par extension".
    D'une manière générale, les journalistes français emploient le terme "anglo-saxon" simplement pour dire "anglophone", négligeant ainsi complètement la partie "saxon" de ce mot. Pourquoi dans ce cas, ne l'emploient-ils pas à la place de "germanophone", en négligeant la partie "anglo" ?

    Si ça ne tenait qu'à moi, je rangerais ce mot au dicomoche.
     
  19. Transfer_02 Senior Member

    Espoo, Finland
    English - British
    :thumbsup: +1
     
  20. LART01

    LART01 Senior Member

    The Hague,Netherlands
    French-France
  21. fandenickylarson Senior Member

    français
    Je conteste cette vision totalement étriquée. En sciences sociales, toute identité est construite. Un label identitaire comme "anglo-saxon" n'a que pas à voir avec la "vraie" histoire. On enseigne bien dans les écoles françaises que les ancêtres des Français sont des Gaulois ce qui est "ethniquement" et "historiquement" faux. La France est un melting-pot rassemblant des descendants de Celtes, de Latins, de Germains (sans compter tous les Français qui ont des origines d'Asie, d'Afrique, etc.) Autre exemple: pourquoi dit-on "Amérique latine"? Parce qu'on y parle l'espagnol et le portugais alors que d'un point de vue ethnique et historique il s'agit d'un gigantesque melting-pot. Pourtant on ne conteste pas l'expression "Amérique latine" qui reste pertinente car il s'agit d'un label identitaire pour désigner une communauté qui peut être linguistique ou alors culturelle ou bien même économique, etc.
    Quand je dis "anglo-saxon" je n'insinue pas que les Américains, les Australiens etc. sont tous des descendants des Anglais (Anglo-) et des Germains (-Saxons). Je l'utilise comme un label identitaire construit pour désigner, dans mon cas précis, des pays qui forment une communauté. Dans mon exemple, il s'agit de chercheurs en sciences sociales qui forment une communauté homogène dans le milieu de la recherche en sociologie et en science politique mais je ne veux pas dire que d'autres domaines l'expression "anglo-saxon" soit si pertinente.
    Il faut lire les mémoires du général de Gaulle qui utilisait cette expression de façon très pertinente. J'attire votre attention que même la reine Élisabeth II a utilisé cette expression lorsqu'elle a été amenée à rencontrer le Président américain Bush.
    Enfin bon, je comprends la majorité des Britanniques et des Américains (et même pour certains Français) mais je continue à soutenir qu'elle reste une très bonne expression
     
  22. funnyhat Senior Member

    Michigan, U.S.A.
    American English
    Je comprends sa signification particulière en français, mais en anglais, on ne l'utilise presque jamais pour cette fonction. En anglais le terme peut porter une connotation raciale, comme dans le terme "WASP" (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant). On peut dire "English-speakers," "Anglophones" ou bien (dans un contexte plus informel) "Anglos".
     
  23. Transfer_02 Senior Member

    Espoo, Finland
    English - British
  24. Language Hound Senior Member

    American English
    Thank you, Transfer_02, for posting the link to that wonderful brief list of misused English terms
    in EU publications! I think it should be "required reading";)!
    The proposed (correct) replacement terms are very helpful.

    Just in case there's ever a problem with the link,
    I'll copy below the suggested replacement terms for Anglo-Saxon.
    Due to the WR limit on the length of quotes,
    I can't copy the "Explanation" and "Example" sections,
    but I urge people to read them.
     
  25. bh7 Senior Member

    Limestone City
    Canada; English
    J'ai déjà dans le passé suggérer aux francophones dans ce forum d'éviter d'utiliser le terme " anglo-saxon " dans le sens "anglais" ou "anglophone". C'est [1] un faux ami; [2] inexact; [3] mal choisi; [4] franchement ridicule. Seuls les Français et les Allemands insistent à continuer d'utiliser cet adjectif mal à propos relatives aux anglophones contemporaines. On croirait que leur formation en histoire n'avait pas progressé au-delà de la Guerre de Cent Ans.
     
  26. bh7 Senior Member

    Limestone City
    Canada; English
    Et, en retour de mon excursion liguistique au sujet, le "rouleau compresseur anglophone" => the overwhelming preponderance of English in ...
     
  27. Ellea1

    Ellea1 Senior Member

    London
    Southern French
    Anglo-Saxon culture is as obsolete as the Gallic one.

    The pressure of the English language in
     
  28. Toller Senior Member

    Britain English
    For "anglo-saxon", how about 'from anglosphere countries'?
     
  29. Keith Bradford

    Keith Bradford Senior Member

    Brittany, NW France
    English (Midlands UK)
    I agree with all the reasons given above that "Anglo-Saxon" is absolutely not the term to use.

    For rouleau-compresseur, how about: juggernaut ? "A literal or metaphorical force or object regarded as unstoppable, that will crush all in its path" (source, Wikipedia)
     
  30. mehoul Senior Member

    french
    A friend of mine who is professor of statistics in London but knows France very well, annoyed by the term "anglo-saxon", retaliates by calling us French "les gallo-romains".
     
  31. Keith Bradford

    Keith Bradford Senior Member

    Brittany, NW France
    English (Midlands UK)
    :D

    But I should say that, when speaking French, anglo-saxon may be the correct term to use. This conforms to the Bradford Law of linguistic borrowing (Pat. Pend.) which states that any word, when borrowed from one language for use in another, will change its spelling, pronunciation or meaning, or even all three.
     
  32. Language Hound Senior Member

    American English
    :thumbsup::thumbsup: How very true!
    With your permission, I would like to cite "the Bradford Law of linguistic borrowing"
    when trying to explain, among other things, that Entrées on a menu in the U.S.
    means Main Courses.
     
  33. Keith Bradford

    Keith Bradford Senior Member

    Brittany, NW France
    English (Midlands UK)

    Cite away!
     

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