Leiden / lijden (pronunciation)

Discussion in 'Nederlands (Dutch)' started by James Bates, May 1, 2013.

  1. James Bates Senior Member

    English America
    Is there any difference between the pronunciations of "Leiden" (the city) and "lijden" (to suffer) in standard Dutch? I sure can't tell them apart!
     
  2. Peterdg

    Peterdg Senior Member

    Belgium
    Dutch - Belgium
    Neither can we. At least in Belgium, there is no difference at all. It's just two ways to write the same sound.
     
  3. Sjonger Senior Member

    Netherlands
    Dutch - Netherlands
    Neither can we in Holland. But by the way: in Holland there's a tendency to pronounce both more like 'laiden'.
     
  4. James Bates Senior Member

    English America
    Thanks everybody!
     
  5. George French Senior Member

    English - UK
    Or even lye-uh? (read that in English]. And how is it pronounced in the rest of The Netherlands? Or even in ABN?

    GF..
     
  6. Sjonger Senior Member

    Netherlands
    Dutch - Netherlands
    It's more a question of age: the younger the speaker, the more it tends to [laiden]. This proces has been going on for several decades. A linguist once pointed out to me that it's in fact a characeteristic of 'ingweonic' languages (that is: referring to languages and dialects spoken around the north sea), and it already happened earlier in English: the verb 'lijken' (same [ij] as in 'lijden') has in the English verb 'to like' become [laike]

    As for ´ley-uh', that's not ABN, it's vernacular, and it can only mean 'lijden' (not 'leiden'). But curiously it's also said by old gentry. They have a tradition of using vernacular or even coarse expressions like 'pissen'. It has been explaind by the fact that they never had to maintain their status by speaking ABN, because their status was clear en undoubted no matter what they did or said or how they sad it.
     
  7. Lopes

    Lopes Senior Member

    Brussels
    Dutch (Amsterdam)
    Someone once told me I pronounced 'ei' as 'ij'. I certainly don't hear a difference but apparently she did.
     
  8. bibibiben

    bibibiben Senior Member

    Amsterdam
    Dutch - Netherlands
    'Standaardnederlands' doesn't make a difference between 'ei' and 'ij', but quite a few dialects do. She could be from a region in which this distinction is somehow crucial?
     
  9. Lopes

    Lopes Senior Member

    Brussels
    Dutch (Amsterdam)
    Ze kwam uit Brabant, dus dat zou kunnen.
     
  10. luitzen Senior Member

    Netherlands
    Frisian, Dutch and Low Saxon
    Wat is het verschil dan tussen [ai] en [ei] or [ij]? Ik hoor geen verschil.
     
  11. Lopes

    Lopes Senior Member

    Brussels
    Dutch (Amsterdam)
    Je hoort geen verschil tussen mais en meisje?
     
  12. luitzen Senior Member

    Netherlands
    Frisian, Dutch and Low Saxon
    Je bedoelt als in maïs?
     
  13. Lopes

    Lopes Senior Member

    Brussels
    Dutch (Amsterdam)
    Ja, dat spreek ik eigenlijk uit als 'mais'.
     
  14. bibibiben

    bibibiben Senior Member

    Amsterdam
    Dutch - Netherlands
    Wie geen verschil maakt tussen bijvoorbeeld 'haai' [hai] en 'hij' [hɛi], wijkt af van de standaard. Alleen in sommige dialecten is geen verschil te horen.

    Aan de andere kant maakt het Standaardnederlands weer geen verschil tussen 'hei' [hɛi] en 'hij' [hɛi], terwijl er ongetwijfeld dialecten zullen zijn die op dat punt wél een verschil maken.
     
  15. luitzen Senior Member

    Netherlands
    Frisian, Dutch and Low Saxon
    Voor mij is het verschil met 'haai' en 'hij' in de lengte van de klank en niet de klank zelf ([ha:i] vs. [hai]).
     
  16. bibibiben

    bibibiben Senior Member

    Amsterdam
    Dutch - Netherlands
    'Haai' is weer te geven als [ha.i] en [hai]. De uitspraak van 'hij' kan zich bewegen tussen [hɛi] en [hæi], maar is in het Standaardnederlands nooit [hai]. Een dergelijke uitspraak van 'hij' zal op z'n best worden aangemerkt als Poldernederlands.
     

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