Levantine Arabic: to want - بدّ

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by Abu Rashid, Jan 25, 2007.

  1. Abu Rashid

    Abu Rashid Senior Member

    Melbourne, Australia
    Australian English
    elroy suggested this should become a new topic if it were to be carried any further, so here it is.

    From what I understood of the word, it is used as a noun, since the pronouns are attached to it as they would be to a noun for instance

    my wanting: بدّي
    your wanting: بدّك
    his wanting: بدّه
    her wanting: بدّها
    etc.

    This is normally how pronouns would be attached to a noun for instance

    my book: كتابي
    your book: كتابك
    his book: كتابه
    her book: كتابها
    etc.

    If I am wrong then please explain this a little clearer for me if you can elroy or any other Palestinian or speaker of Levantine dialect (3ameeyah ash-Shameeyah)
     
  2. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    You are partly right. It is a contraction of a noun and a preposition.

    In MSA it would correspond to بِوِد (i.e. بـِ + وِد).

    So the MSA "biwid-" is contracted to "bid-" in Levantine Arabic (also further mutating to "bad-" in some dialects).

    To this the various pronoun suffixes are added.

    I hope that has made things clearer. :) If you have other questions feel free to ask them.
     
  3. Abu Rashid

    Abu Rashid Senior Member

    Melbourne, Australia
    Australian English
    Thanks for that elroy.

    I do have another question, is that ود related to ودّ as in the verb 'to love'?
     
  4. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Yes.

    وِد (wid) is a noun meaning "love, desire" and وَدَّ (wadda) is a verb meaning "to love, to desire."
     
  5. Arrius

    Arrius Senior Member

    Spain
    English, UK
    و,داد (Widaad), therefore, - hope I spelled it right- a girl's name apparently equivalent to French Désirée, must be derived from this root?
     
  6. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Right again.
     
  7. HKK

    HKK Senior Member

    3010 Leuven, Be.
    Dutch/Belgium
    Is Widaad the female equivalent of Dawood then? Or is there a different shade in meaning?
     
  8. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Well, not really. The meanings are related, but Dawuud is originally a Hebrew name (as you probably know!), so you can't really say that it is the masculine version of Widaad.

    As for the meanings,

    Widaad is "love" (the sentiment) whereas Dawuud/David is "beloved one" (in Hebrew).

    Let's see how many related topics we can squeeze in this thread. So far we have

    Levantine word for "want" -> related verb "to love" -> Widaad -> Dawuud

    What next? ;)
     
  9. HKK

    HKK Senior Member

    3010 Leuven, Be.
    Dutch/Belgium
    Well, this is about the son of biblical Dawuud and بدّه a ring:

    http://www.wscribe.com/parables/pass.html

    Beautiful story :) How would Gam zeh ya'avor translate in Arabic? Would the initials be Jiim Zaaii Yaa?
     
  10. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Ok, now we're really off-topic, but I'll answer your question anyway since this thread hasn't exactly been focused. ;) I insist, though, that you open a new thread if you wish to discuss new topics.

    "Gam ze ya'avor" would be هذا أيضًا سيمضي, and no, we would not just transliterate the first letter of each of the Hebrew words. :)
     
  11. eac Senior Member

    USA, English
    Must the pronoun attached to bidd- always agree with a following verb, i.e. بده يشتغل، بدنا نشتغل، بدي اشتغل
    How can we say عايزنا نشتغل He wants us to work?

    شكرا
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2013
  12. vinyljunkie619 Senior Member

    so-cal
    algerian arabic/american english
    I have heard lebanese say "huwa beddo neshte3'el" and "beddo yana neshte3'el"
     
  13. dkarjala Senior Member

    English - America
    I can remember and find many instances where the verb is subordinated (lacks the indicative prefix) without a pronoun object. ما بدي تروح 'I don't want you to go" , etc. Of course, you can also use the accusative independent forms like with ya/iya e.g. ما بدي ياك تروح But I think by and large these are optional, as we also have the option in MSA of saying اريد أن تذهب or أريدك ان تذهب.

    Of course, I will defer to our native-speaking members for a definitive answer.
     
  14. analeeh Senior Member

    English - UK
    Biddi etc (also waddi in some strange riifi dialects in Jordan at least - which has just been explained to me by that etymology given above, so thanks) falls into a class that at least one linguist describes as 'pseudoverbs' - i.e. things which act very like verbs but are not morphologically/lack some of their characteristics. Looking at biddi in terms of its etymology explains why its 'conjugation' looks like a noun with personal pronouns but it doesn't explain some of its behaviour very well. I learnt if I remember correctly kān biddi كان بدّي for 'I wanted' with invariable kān, but some people in Jordan at least say kunt biddi, which is directly analogous to, say, kunt bashteghel. I don't know if this tendency has been carried this far in all of the Levantine dialects though. The only way it differs from a verb in its usage is that it can't take object suffixes because it already has them so it has to use yaa- instead, and in that it doesn't have a ماضي form.

    It's perfectly possible to say biddi ta36ii-ni l-ma9aari il-yoom, as well as with yaaki and I think also you can say biddi innak ta36ii-ni etc (but I'd like a native's opinion on that).
     
  15. k8an Senior Member

    Melbourne, Australia.
    English - Australian
    In Lebanese specifically (I don't think this applies to other Levantine), the following verb for first person usually does not have an alif in front of it. For example:
    بدي شوفك baddé shoufak (I want to see you) as opposed to بدي اشوفك baddi/biddi ashoufak (other Levantine)
    بدي قللك baddé 2ellak (I want to tell you) as opposed to بدي اقوللك baddi/biddi a2oullak (other Levantine)
    خليني شوفك khaliiné shoufak
     
  16. analeeh Senior Member

    English - UK
    That's the same in my experience in Damascene Arabic too - with verbs that start with a consonant cluster there is a first person prefix which sounds like i- but with those that start with only one consonant there's no first person prefix. For Jordanian though there's a first person prefix a- which appears in all environments, with all derived forms of the verb (e.g. biddi ashuufak, biddi a7ki-lak ishi, biddi adarris il-ingliizi).
     
  17. elroy

    elroy Motley mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    The structure is not incorrect, but its actual usage is limited. It is not an unmarked form but expresses a certain nuance:

    بدي اياه ييجي/بدي ييجي = I want him to come [with the implication that he has the agency to decide whether he wants to come; I feel like the version without اياه is stronger]
    بدي إنو ييجي = I want for him to come [I want his coming to happen, whether or not he actively chooses to come]
    Palestinian is just like Jordanian in this regard; the a- is always there. In verbs with a as an initial radical, the two a's merge into aa (aakol, aakhod).

    A correction: biddi adarres ingliizi. No definite article in Levantine (and probably other dialects).
     
  18. alpharabbit New Member

    Arabic - Jordan
    I want to mention that the Hebrew names Yedidah and Jedediah (Yedidyah) come from the same root WDD. In Hebrew, however, root initial W becomes Y (walad = yeled).
     
  19. raful Member

    Hebrew
    Hello to you all
    I have a few questions regarding the verb بدّ and especially it's negation in the colloquial Levantine dialect.
    How should one pronounce the combination You (mas. sing.) don't want ما بدّكش should it be: biddaksh, biddakesh or bidkash? What about the plural forms بدكمش - (bidkomsh or bidkomesh) and بدهمش (bidhomsh or bidhomesh)?
     
  20. apricots

    apricots Senior Member

    English - US
    بدكش by itself or followed by a verb that starts consonant vowel biddaksh (the bold is for the stress shift.)
    بدكش تروح؟ biddak-sh_etruuh? when followed by a verb that starts with et (rather than t-) the sh gets attached to the beginning of that verb.

    Thinking about it though you may not use the shiin negation if it's followed by a verb that starts consonant vowel.

    I am unsure about the plurals but following the same rules as above is a good bet.
     
  21. raful Member

    Hebrew
    Are you sure you drop the ش if بد is followed by a that starts consonant vowel? meaning - ما بدّي أروح and not ما بدّيش أروح ?
     
  22. analeeh Senior Member

    English - UK
    Some speakers at least say biddkaash, though I don't know if this is regional or something. As far as I'm aware, in most Levantine dialects that have -sh, maa, ma-sh and -sh can be used interchangeably. I think it's typically biddhomsh and biddkomsh with a stress shift as apricots has mentioned.
     
  23. apricots

    apricots Senior Member

    English - US
    Also, for you (f) the negation is bidkiish.

    raful in your example ما بديش أروح the shiin is followed by a vowel so it sounds nice. ma biddish aruuh but ma biddi aruuh is perfectly fine also.
     
  24. akhooha Senior Member

    English - USA
    It should be noted that بدّ is not a verb. See the explanation in post number 2.
     
  25. Languagelearner123456 Senior Member

    English-UK
    [Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
    Hello,I was wondering how to conjugate the verb to want in the past tense in Levantine Arabic Romanized script would be greatly appreciated
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2016
  26. Matat Senior Member

    English
    Usually in Levantine, a verb isn't used for "to want". The word "bidd" بِدّ is used with the verb "kaan" كان, and a possessive pronoun is attached to the "bidd" to indicate who's speaking.

    I wanted (masculine and feminine) - kaan biddi - كَانْ بِدِّي
    We wanted (masculine and feminine) - kaan biddnaa- كَانْ بِدّْنَا
    You (masculine) wanted - kaan biddak - كَانْ بِدَّكْ
    You (feminine) wanted - kaan biddayk - كَانْ بِدَّيْكْ
    You all (plural, masculine and feminine) - kaan biddkoun - كَانْ بِدّْكَوْنْ
    He wanted - kaan biddoh - كَانْ بِدَّوْ
    She wanted - kaan bidda - كَانْ بِدَّا
    They (masculine and feminine) wanted - kaan biddoun - كَانْ بِدَّوْنْ
     
  27. Languagelearner123456 Senior Member

    English-UK
    Thank you so much
     
  28. analeeh Senior Member

    English - UK
    It's not generally pronounced -oun but rather -on (although a lot of Syrians write it with a waw for some reason).
     
  29. apricots

    apricots Senior Member

    English - US
    In Palestinian and probably some other Levantine dialects kaan is conjugated also. e.g. kunt biddi, kaan biddo etc.
     
  30. Matat Senior Member

    English
    Sorry, I meant to say "to indicate the subject" instead.
     

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