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Lo echaron a patadas del bar por borracho

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Vocabulary / Vocabulario Español-Inglés' started by Gamen, Apr 7, 2013.

  1. Gamen Senior Member

    Near Buenos Aires
    Spanish Argentina
    Hi.
    I'd like to be able to translate "echar a alguien" (a patadas or de forma más suave) de un lugar público.
    The idea I thought in Spanish is the following:

    Lo echaron a patadas del bar por (estar) borracho.


    My possible attempts in English: Which of them are not correct?

    They sent him out from the bar for being drunk.
    They sent him off from the bar for being drunk.
    They sent him away from the bar for being drunk.
    They threw him out from the bar for being drunk.
    They threw him off from the bar for being drunk.
    They threw him away from the bar for being drunk.
    They kicked him out from the bar for being drunk.
    They kicked him off from the bar for being drunk.
    They kicked him away from the bar for being drunk.

    Till here my inquiry.


    Note:
    Is it possible that "kick off" were a translation for "echar a patadas"?
    I know the main meaning for "to kick off" is "to launch" but can you work freely with verbs and prepositions to form an idea that is not previously pre-shaped as a phrasal verb? or do I have to strictly adjust myself to the phrasal verbs that are already created? I'm not certain but if I want to be more "figurative", in my sentence, for instance, can I take the license to use "kick" and a relatively appropriate preposition like "out" "away" or "off" to give a major expressive strength that might be a more "personal" way of saying something. I've always liked to play with verbs and prepositions to form new ideas in English. I think you can be creative in this language, but as it is something that I cannot do in Spanish (we don't have phrasal verbs), I don't know the freedom degrees to move myself more or less comfortably.
    On the other hand, I think this is interesting to discuss but without going so far as to distract so much the attention on the focal point of the thread

    I hope not to have been too complex or stilted. I know many times I am and I also hope not to trouble or inconvenience the moderators.
    Sorry.
    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  2. Avispero

    Avispero Senior Member

    Australia
    English
    the most common would be: they kicked him out of the bar for being (too) drunk, they threw him out...
     
  3. Gamen Senior Member

    Near Buenos Aires
    Spanish Argentina
    Thank you Avispero for your response!
    I see the examples you give are the most usual. Anyway, can I use any of the other ones? Could they be understandable and correct from the established semantics rules? or Would my creation be too much "personal"?
     
  4. scotu Senior Member

    Paradise: LaX.Nay.Mex.
    Chicago English
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  5. Gamen Senior Member

    Near Buenos Aires
    Spanish Argentina
    The presposition sometimes is "of", sometimes is "from"? How can I know when to use one or other in each case?
    The only correct phrasal verbs are then:
    -To send out
    -To throw out
    -To throw away
    -to kick out
    -to kick away
    and nothig else?
     
  6. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    I would say you can't really play around and invent phrasal verbs. A phrasal verb either exists and has clear meanings or it doesn't. The verb kick is good to use here but you seem to have problems with the prepositions. If someone is IN a bar, then we need the opposite pronoun OUT. As the action involves movement and we are including "the bar" we need to use "out of the bar" ( the opposite movement would be "into the bar"). I hope this helps.

    Sorry, I said pronoun OUT when I meant preposition!

    Gamen, when you say "the only correct phrasal verbs are ...." Do you mean to translate this sentence or in general?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  7. orphaeli Junior Member

    Cascadia
    N. American English
    "they kicked him out of the bar for being drunk" is right but "they kicked him out from the bar" is comprehensible... you'll get the hang of it amiga!
     
  8. Gamen Senior Member

    Near Buenos Aires
    Spanish Argentina
    You are right Jenny. I'm not a beginner in English but I made a big mistake not realizing that after "out" you necessarily have to use the preposition "of" to indicate that something is "going out "of" something else.
    Thank you, on the other hand, for your explanation regarding the lack of freedom to create new phrasal verbs. It was something that I never was sure about.
     
  9. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    To continue with the prepositions, if you use a phrasal verb with AWAY then you always need to use FROM with it when mentioning the place, as in "he ran away from home"
     
  10. Gamen Senior Member

    Near Buenos Aires
    Spanish Argentina
    To translate only these sentences to mean "kick someone out".

    Yes, by dint of practicing quite a lot!
    Comprehensible but not totally correct, I think
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  11. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    Well in that case, only the verbs with OUT are correct
     
  12. Gamen Senior Member

    Near Buenos Aires
    Spanish Argentina
    Scotu:
    Can I assume the last sentence without a cross above (post "4), would be correct for you?

    They kicked him away from the bar for being drunk.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  13. Cenzontle

    Cenzontle Senior Member

    English, U.S.
    "They kicked him out of the bar" means they obliged him to leave. Most likely "kicked" is figurative: probably they didn't apply their foot to him.
    But if "they kicked him away from the bar", there is no phrasal verb "kick away" parallel to "kick out"—so the kicking is likely to be literal, and not necessarily ejecting him out the door.
    I don't like the versions with "sent him out", because they don't carry the idea of forcing him to leave.
    Maybe they "sent" him on an errand, to go and get something and bring it back to the bar.
     
  14. Gamen Senior Member

    Near Buenos Aires
    Spanish Argentina
    I see your point Cenzontle. The same is in Spanish. When we say "lo echaron a patadas", not necessarily the action has to be made with a literal or physical "kicking". It could be, but many times that does not happen. Just, as you said, is a "figurative" or "metaphorical" sense.

    I understand that the usage of the verb "to send" is softer and does not convey the idea I want to express with "echar a patadas" that it is something stronger and in some way more violent since it is an action made by force or against someone's will.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013

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