Más perdido que...

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Vocabulary / Vocabulario Español-Inglés' started by ladybug7, Oct 15, 2008.

  1. ladybug7 Senior Member

    Chile, Spanish
    Hola! En el año 1914 hubo un aviador chileno llamado el teniente Bello que se perdió en un vuelo, desapareció. Han habido muchas expediciones incluso hasta la fecha, que lo han buscado sin éxito. De este evento se creó una expresión popular que dice "Más perdido que el Teniente Bello". Esta expresión se refiere a las personas que no saben de lo que están hablando o que están lejos de tener razón con respecto a algo. Estoy traduciendo un documento sobre el teniente Bello y necesito esa expresión en inglés. Mi pregunta es, sería correcto decir "More lost than lieutenant Bello"? Graciaaaaaas! Espero no estar tan perdida como el teniente Bello!
     
  2. aztlaniano

    aztlaniano Senior Member

    Lavapiestán, Madrid
    English (Aztlán, US sector)
    Tendrás que explicarlo.
     
  3. ladybug7 Senior Member

    Chile, Spanish
    Hola, Aztlaniano! El documento lo explica, mi pregunta es si es gramaticalmente correcto decir "More lost than Lieutenant Bello". Gracias!
     
  4. SydLexia Senior Member

    London
    UK, English
    Perfectly correct.

    syd
     
  5. zumac Senior Member

    Mexico City
    USA: English & Spanish
    If this is the expression that you are going to use, I would change it as follows for better English.

    "As lost as Lieutenant Bello."

    Saludos.
     
  6. LA Cradad Senior Member

    Louisiana
    English USA
    If this is for an English speaking audience, they perhaps will not know Lt. Bello. In this country there is the legend of Amelia Earhart, an aviator who disappeared in 1937 in an attempt to circle the globe. The focus is not on her being lost however, but on her disappearance.(subtle difference) Today people are still fascinated with her story. I hope that this helps.
     
  7. BocaJuniors

    BocaJuniors Senior Member

    NASA Space Center, Mississippi, USA.
    Spanish & English (parejos y por añales)
    This is what I have always used and everyone around me here in Mississippi ... "as lost as ..."
     
  8. ladybug7 Senior Member

    Chile, Spanish
    Hello, everyone! If "More lost than Lieutenant Bello" is correct, then that's what I'll use, because the expression means that one is MORE lost than him, not as lost. I'm working on a documentary film about this pilot. Thanks everyone for your help!!!
     
  9. aztlaniano

    aztlaniano Senior Member

    Lavapiestán, Madrid
    English (Aztlán, US sector)
    Cuando se habla de personas es más habitual "missing" que "lost".
     
  10. ladybug7 Senior Member

    Chile, Spanish
    También pensé en eso, Aztlaniano, pero sería correcto decir. " You are more missing than Lieutenant Bello"? A mí no me suena para nada! L.
     
  11. aztlaniano

    aztlaniano Senior Member

    Lavapiestán, Madrid
    English (Aztlán, US sector)
    No, I have to agree with Zumac, "as missing as"....
    I don't suppose you could use Amelia Earhart, instead of el teniente Bello?
     
  12. gotitadeleche Senior Member

    Texas, U.S.A.
    U.S.A. English
    In my opinion, since you have explained the origen of the expression in your documentary, saying "More lost than Lieutenant Bello" would be perfectly correct. If you say "missing" then you lose the figural meaning that it is used for currently (to say someone doesn't know what he is talking about). In English, we use lost to describe someone who is confused or on the wrong track in his thinking. Since the documentary is about Lt. Bello, I don't see any reason to mention Amelia Earhart. Perhaps you could give us the exact context where you use it to be sure.
     
  13. Cabeza tuna

    Cabeza tuna Senior Member

    Santiago, Chile
    Chilean Spanish & Chilean Coa
    Ladybug7, el teniente Bello fue encontrado hace algunos años en la cordillera, lo cual es extraño ya que viajaba por la costa. Dicen que la bruma y el fallo de la brujula lo hicieron perderse.
    Un Pequeño dato :)
     
  14. Jim986

    Jim986 Senior Member

    New Zealand English
    Hola. En inglés, como comenta Zumac y concuerda aztlaniano, no dicimos "more....than" en este tipo de expresiones sino "as ..... as", así que "more lost than Lt. Bello" no sería idiomática. Tampoco sería gramaticamente correcta ya que en adjetivos de una sóla síliba no se emplea el comparativo latino con "more-most" sino el anglo-sajon de "-er, -est". "Lost", como término absoluto (algo o está lost o está found, located, no hay terreno entremedio) no tiene comparativo aceptado. Tanto "loster than" como "more lost than" suenan raro por lo incorrecto. Por eso hay que emplear "as lost as ...".
     
  15. ladybug7 Senior Member

    Chile, Spanish
    Según el documental que estoy traduciendo, que está basado en hechos que la fuerza Aérea ha entregado, el Teniente Bello a la fecha no ha sido encontrado. La última expedición en su búsqueda se llevó a cabo el año 2006, sin ningún éxito... L.
     
  16. ladybug7 Senior Member

    Chile, Spanish
    Estoy de acuerdo con eso, pero hablantes nativos han aprobado la forma "More lost than..." Estoy, literalmente, más perdida que el teniente bello!!! Finalmente creo que usaré la forma "As lost as..." Mil gracias!!! L.
     
  17. SydLexia Senior Member

    London
    UK, English
    "More lost than Nemo"

    Jim's comments interested/perplexed me and I did a little Google research:

    'slightly lost' gets 45k hits, only 10k fewer than 'absolutely lost'.
    'more lost than' gets 43k hits although many are actually different phrases (e.g. '(there was) more lost than prestige', etc)

    Based on the above, I feel that 'lost' can legitimately be called a 'gradable' adjective rather than an 'absolute' one.

    Especially when we mean 'intellectually lost', I see no reason why we cannot say "More lost than Lt. Bello".

    Regarding 'loster', I contend that there is no rule to be broken. There is merely a tendency... and there are several monosyllables where both the 'more' version and the "er" version seem natural ("more fit" - 681k, "more stark" - 116k, "more free")

    Note: 25k = 25k hits = 25,000 Google hits.

    syd
     
  18. gotitadeleche Senior Member

    Texas, U.S.A.
    U.S.A. English
    When they are laid off, they are often even more lost than women. And so they build a shell around themselves to protect themselves from being hurt again. ...

    ... when it comes to understand my psychic abilities and I truly believe that we are all psychic, but some of us are just a little more lost than others. ...

    If I asked you to clarify, you'd sound more lost than Sarah Palin on foreign policy.

    More than a month after Hurricane Ike, the power is back on, the oil refineries are back up -- and yet, in many small towns, people feel more lost than ever ...

    The man was lost and then he was found and now he's more lost than ever --


    The above are just a few of the many examples I found of "more lost than" on the Internet. They sound natural to me.
     
  19. ladybug7 Senior Member

    Chile, Spanish
    Great! So that means I can say "More lost than Lieutenant Bello", which absolutely reflects the meaning of the pópular saying! Love you, guys!!! L.
     
  20. Jim986

    Jim986 Senior Member

    New Zealand English
    Hi. In all the examples quoted, "lost" is being used as a synonym for "confused" or "disorientated". Nobody would argue that in this sense it can't be modified or take the comparative, although I think the superlative ("you're the most lost on foreign policy I've ever heard") doesn't sound like a good choice of words.
    The word has three basic meanings: 1) to be bemused, mentally absent, or confused; 2) doomed, damned, condemned; 3) not located. At first I took it that we were only talking about the third, although after reading the above posts I reckon Lt. Bello was almost certainly lost in all three senses (which also exist in Spanish), so yes, Ladybug, you can put "more lost than..." if you like.
    The other question is the usual or accepted wording of expressions like "as much use as a chocolate teapot", "as high as a kite", "as mad as a shot hog", etc. In my opinion the common expression "más perdido que el teniente Bello" belongs to this category. The most natural and elegant translation of the myriad Spanish expressions structured "más .... que ..." is, in English, "as ... as". "Más terco que una mula" would translate to "as stubborn as a mule", and if I were to put "stubborner/more stubborn than a mule" I could be accused of being over-literal as well as awkward.
     

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