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market

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by jmt356, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. jmt356 Senior Member

    Does سوق or صوق = market?

    According to Google translate, both translate as market, though سوق can also be a verb that means to market or to drive.
     
  2. Tracer

    Tracer Senior Member

    Wadi Jinn
    American English
    Market is سوق
    As far as I know, صوق does not occur in Arabic. It has no meaning. (So much for Google).
     
  3. barkoosh Senior Member

    Beirut
    Arabic
    Google Translate is not a dictionary. Its engine is used to translate Web pages. If you google "صوق", you'll find that many Arabs misspell سوق and use صوق. So it was normal for the engineers to include صوق as a translation for "market". However, you must have noticed that Google Translate asked: Did you mean سوق?

    It's always better to use an English-Arabic dictionary; many are available online.
     
  4. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    I agree completely with what the previous contributors say about google translate. The interesting question is why so many Arabs misspell this very common word. Does one actually say “ṣūq” in any dialect?
     
  5. barkoosh Senior Member

    Beirut
    Arabic
    Yes, some do pronounce it “ṣūq” in my country.
     
  6. Tracer

    Tracer Senior Member

    Wadi Jinn
    American English
    It's probably a "phonetic" feature. The "U" and the "Q" are already heavy, rounded sounds influencing and changing the first S sound from a س to a ص
     
  7. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    /ṣūq/ or /ṣūʼ/ ?
     
  8. barkoosh Senior Member

    Beirut
    Arabic
    No, I mean when they talk or read fusHa.
     
  9. Schem

    Schem Senior Member

    Unaizah
    Najdi Arabic
    It's always suug with a س here in SA.
     
  10. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)

    Thanks, that is very interesting. I know that in Cairo dialect صندوق is pronounced as if it were spelt سندوق . So perhaps the reading pronunciation of سوق as صوق is what linguists call a hypercorrection.
     
  11. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    I'm not good with linguistics terms, but I don't think it's the case. I believe we, Egyptians, pronounce the ص of صندق as a س because of the final consonant that we pronounce as a hamza سندوء. Pronouncing it صندوء would be too heavy. The same goes the other way round: turning the س into a ص when the word has an emphatic (?) sound is easier than having a س then a ق.
     
  12. jmt356 Senior Member

    Cherine, if it were true that Egyptians pronounced صندوق as سندوق because they pronounce the ق as a ء, then why would Egyptians pronounce سوق as صوق? Isn't your theory that Egyptians prefer to use "light" letters such as س and ء together and "heavy" letters" such as ص and ق together? If so, سوق should always be سعق in countries that pronounce the ق as ء (as in Syria, Lebanon and Egypt) or as a hard "g" (as in Saudi Arabia). In contrast, in places that pronounce ق as ق (as in Latakia, among the older generation), there woud be a tendency to pronounce سوق as صوق.
     
  13. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    I don't think Egyptians pronounce سوق as صوق at all. I've tried to make myself say صوق in an 'Egyptian' way but it ends up sounding like I'm imitating a bird of some kind. Maybe you are perceiving the vowel as changing the preceding consonant?
     
  14. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    I didn't say we pronounce it as صوق . We pronounce it سوء , and the same for سندوء (which is صندوق) because the qaaf is pronounced as a hamza.

    But I think that the dialects that keep the ق as qaaf (versus hamza or "g") may find it easier for pronunciation harmony to turn the س into ص.
     
  15. jmt356 Senior Member

    I see now: Egyptians pair the light ء with the light س.
    Similarly, it is easier to pair the heavy ق with the heavy ص.

    Turkish has similar constructions: you would not see the "light" vowel "o" mixed with the heavy "ü" in the same word, but you would see "o" and "u" paired together or "ö" and "ü" paired together.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013

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