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mi diceste che avreste fatto

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by garrone_23, Jan 29, 2008.

  1. Salve come si può tradurre questa frase...?
    "La settimana scorsa mi diceste che AVRESTE FATTO IL BONIFICO. Invece non lo avete fatto!"
    Last week you told me that you would have done the wire. But you didn't.

    Grazie siete fantastici
     
  2. Murphy

    Murphy Senior Member

    Sicily, Italy
    English, UK
     
  3. marco1122 Senior Member

    italiana
    Ho ritrovato questo vecchio post, cercando di tradurre una frase simile. La mia domanda è perchè l'uso del condizionale passato è sbagliato, se l'azione riguarda un tempo passato.
    Grazie
     
  4. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
  5. curiosone

    curiosone Senior Member

    Romagna, Italy
    AE - hillbilly ;)
    I have no argument with the rules regarding the future in the past (and I'm NOT saying that Murphy's sentence is incorrect), but I don't think it's obligatory to use this form, in this context. I would likely have used the past conditional, since the sentence following it was in the past tense. In fact I would probably have said:
    "Last week you told me you would have arranged for a wire transfer. But you didn't."

    However I could also have said:
    "Last week you told me you'd arrange for a wire transfer. But you haven't." (or: "I haven't received one." - with the second phrase in the present tense).
    .
    I have a question about the original sentence in Italian. This use of "passato remoto" (and in the "Voi" form) sounds to me like a colloquial form used mainly in southern Italy. In Emilia-Romagna I've always heard it said :
    "La settimana scorsa mi aveva detto che avrebbe fatto il bonifico."
    or (using the "Voi" form, as is frequently used in commercial written Italian):
    "La settimana scorsa mi avete detto che avreste fatto il bonifico."

    Are these sentences correct? (or is it obligatory to use the passato remoto? - which sounds strange to me?)
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  6. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    You're mixing up passato remoto with imperfetto, that's why you suggested "would have arranged" which is actually wrong in this example.
    "Last week you told me you'd arrange for a wire transfer" is the only correct translation.
     
  7. curiosone

    curiosone Senior Member

    Romagna, Italy
    AE - hillbilly ;)
    So (using the "Lei" form) would it be correct to say: "La settimana scorsa mi ha detto che avrebbe fatto il bonifico" ? (I wasn't trying to use the "passato remoto" at all).
     
  8. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
     
  9. curiosone

    curiosone Senior Member

    Romagna, Italy
    AE - hillbilly ;)
    Thanks, Paul. :) I suspect many Italians say it wrong, too (thus increasing my confusion)!
     
  10. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    I don't think this is correct, but it's the kind of thing people might say speaking informally. I'd say it's a cross between a future in the past:
    Last week you told me you would arrange for a wire transfer.
    and a hypothetical past:
    Last week you would have arranged for a wire transfer if you had remembered.
     
  11. curiosone

    curiosone Senior Member

    Romagna, Italy
    AE - hillbilly ;)
    I guess for me the "if you had remembered" was understood (without saying) - and I had specified I'd only use it, when followed by "But you didn't" (in the past).
    And maybe it is informal (or spoken English). But since when is informal wrong?
     
  12. london calling Senior Member

    SALERNO, ITALY
    UK ENGLISH
    Agreed.;)
     
  13. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    Well, "if you had remembered" doesn't fit in the first sentence because it's reported speech, a future in the past. Of course they could apologise to you saying, "we would have arranged it if we had remembered, but unfortunately we forgot" and in reported speech this would remain unchanged, but it's a different case.
    Is informal wrong? Well, I didn't say it was a "standard" informal construction. What I meant was that speaking informally we often put together half-sentences which are not in an entirely logical sequence if we think about it. Basically we say things that we wouldn't write.
     
  14. curiosone

    curiosone Senior Member

    Romagna, Italy
    AE - hillbilly ;)
    This I totally agree with. :) And I also think the language belongs to the people, and either it evolves, or it stagnates.
     
  15. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    Yes, but I don't want to be misunderstood. In modern times, of mass literacy, the written language belongs to the people as much as speech. The difference is that when we write we reflect more about how we express ourselves; it's not just a question of formal/informal.
     

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