Discussion in 'Català (Catalan)' started by GeriReshef, Aug 3, 2013.
The 't' in the middle is pronounced? hardly pronounced? not pronounced at all?
It's hardly pronounced, in my opinion. I can't hear a relevant difference between Montserrat and Monserrat. It seems to be pronounced because you have to put your tongue in your alveoli in order to utter this 's', but you don't pronounce it at all if the next consonant is a b, for instance: Montbau /mom'bau/.
Hola i bon vespre:
Compastesc l'opinió i la percepció de Lurezko, aquesta te els valencians tampoc no la pronunciem mai: Montfort = momfort; Montserrat= monserrat: Àdhuc si foren dues paraules: mont serrat la pronunciem igual : mon serrat, sens la te. Únicament quan el segon mot comença per vocal, n'és quan la recuperem. Mont Aralat= Mon taralat. La pronúncia genuïna de la ciutat canadenca de Montreal és Mon-real, i no pas Mon-tre-al a la castellana.
Lurrezko: The reason for my question is a disagreement in our Wikipedia about the correct way to transcript it into our language.
From one side the T is written, and women whose name is Montserrat get sometimes the nickname "Montse" where the T is written and pronounced;
but from the other hand you admit you cannot hear a relevant difference..
We don't use Latin letters, and thus we cannot just write it in the same way as in Catalan and let everybody to decide how to pronounce it, and we have to decide if to add our equivalent for the Latin T..
From your answer I guess you "feel" the T in your tongue and not in your ear, as it a lot of times happens in spoken languages, and my conclusion is that the T still should be written..
Am I correct?
Elxenc: unfortunately I don't speak Catalan, though I guess it is about the tendency to omit the second of two consonants which are not followed by vowels.
Thank you very much for both of you.
In Catalonia we don't pronounce the T after an N, so Montserrat sounds like Monserrat and Montse sounds like Monse (pesant sounds pesan, cantant sounds like cantan, etc). I'm sure that Lurrezko didn't want to tell you to foget the T, because he wasn't sure of the pronunciation in Valencia or other places outside Catalonia.
But when it comes to Montse you must know that the most common pronunciation is Spanish not really Catalan. It's incorrect but a reality, because "Montse" is the Spanish nickname, the authentic Catalan nickname for Montserrat is Rat, but it is really rare nowadays. Another nick is Tona from "Montserratona" or even "Munsa" which reflects the central Catalan pronunciation for the first part of the name.
From the DCVB:
So I think it's clear that you should not transcribe the ‹t›, but you will have to make some choices when transcribing the two unstressed vowels.
Thank you all very much for all the explanations.
Separate names with a comma.