muhatap

Discussion in 'Türkçe (Turkish)' started by kardorion, Nov 24, 2007.

  1. kardorion Senior Member

    ionia
    Bilingual: English (UK)-Turkish
    Merhaba, muhatap kelimesinin yerine tam oturacak bir başka türkçe kelime bulamıyorum. Var mı bir öneriniz?
    (Hatta ingilizcede de uygun bir kelime bulamadım, sözlüklerde interlocutor geçiyor ama oturmadı nedense bence, oturuyorsa da hiç kullanılmayan bir kelime.)
    Teşekkürler.

    Aramızda konuşurken şu cümleyi kullandık:
    "Bu konuda senin muhatabın X Bey'dir herhalde". Sonra da bu kelimenin yerine hem yeni türkçe bir kelime hem de uygun bir ingilizce kelime düşünmeye başladık ama başarısız olduk.
     
  2. ameana7

    ameana7 Senior Member

    Ankara
    Turkey, Turkish
    Hımm, ilginç bir şekilde TDK bir karşılık önermemiş sanırım. Aslında mail atıp, sormak lazım. İngilizce'ye gelince, google da "interlocutor" kelimesini arattım, Merriam Webster' a göre anlamı şu:

    1 : one who takes part in dialogue or conversation
    2 : a man in the middle of the line in a minstrel show who questions the end men and acts as leader

    Üstelik bir mevki de sanırım:
    "The Federal Interlocutor works with Métis, Non-Status Indian and urban Aboriginal organizations, as well as with provincial governments where appropriate, to find practical ways to improve the life chances of Métis, Non-Status Indians and urban Aboriginal people." (http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/interloc/ofi/index-eng.asp)

    Ben de beğenmedim doğrusu. Öte yandan, Zargan'ın önerileri:
    drawee
    acceptor
    adressee (ki bu Fransızcası sanırım)
    respondent

    Cümlen sanırım, bu haliyle direkt olarak İngilizce'ye çevrilmiyor.
    "X is the respondent person in this subject", kulağa hoş geldi mi? Gelmedi değil mi? :(
     
  3. kardorion Senior Member

    ionia
    Bilingual: English (UK)-Turkish
    Teşekkürler, TDK'ya bakmak aklıma gelmemişti, onlar da harika bir fikir sunmadılarsa demek ki yok bunun bir karşılığı. İngilizcesine gelince... Bence de respondent person kulağa pek hoş gelmiyor.
    "Relevant person" düşündüm ama o da çok resmi bir mektupta kullanılabilecek bir kelime, günlük dilde kullanıldığını hiç duymadım. "The relevant person in this situation is X" - hem anlamı da uymuyor - sanki "bahsi geçen kişi" anlamı veriyor.
    Şimdilik benim aklıma (ve de konuştuğum safkan ingilizlerin de aklına) başka birşey gelmiyor. Tek kelimeyle değil de ancak "the person you need to talk to" gibi uzatarak söyleyince garip gelmiyor. Birşey bulursak hemen buraya yazarım.
     
  4. kardorion Senior Member

    ionia
    Bilingual: English (UK)-Turkish
    Hello, I'm trying to find a good English equivalent to the word "muhatap". It's a very commonly used word in Turkish. In dictionaries it says that it is of Arabic origin and if I'm not mistaken from the root "htp". The same root as seen in hatip (orator, speaker) and hitap (to address to someone).

    To give you and idea, here are some examples of how we use it in Turkish:
    1. "I won't be muhatap with him" - meaning "I won't speak to him - I won't be involved with him"
    2. "In this case Mr.X is your muhatap" - meaning "In this case you should speak to Mr.X"

    I'd be very happy to see any of your suggestions. Thanks.
     
  5. toolmanUF Junior Member

    Washington, DC
    St. Petersburg, Florida, USA (English)
    Merhaba kardorian, nasılsınız?

    While I cannot completely answer your question, I just thought that you should know that what Turkish often renders as an "h" was originally a heavy "x" in Arabic. (ﺥ ) So, that is the Arabic letter than the root corresponds to. ( ب -ط -ﺥ ) Also, the "t" is an emphatic T in Arabic, something else which Turkish lost. Finally, the "p" is realized as a "b" in Arabic, as there is no sound corresponding to the Turkish/ English "p" in Arabic. So, in that Turkish word, while the root is the same as in Arabic, all three letters have been altered!

    Anyway, your assessment makes perfect sense, considering what the word means in Turkish. x-T-b is indeed a root for "to give a speech, talk to someone" in Arabic. I don't know exactly how else it is used in Turkish. (Maalesef, sadece biraz Türkçe konuşuyorum!)
     
  6. toolmanUF Junior Member

    Washington, DC
    St. Petersburg, Florida, USA (English)
    By the way, I wanted to add that in English we don't really use the active participle in that way. So, while Arabic can say "I won't (be a) speaker to him" or "I won't (be a) "goer" to the store", in English we have to use a verb.

    According to Hans Wehr, muXaatib is best translated as "interlocutor, conversation partner."
     
  7. kardorion Senior Member

    ionia
    Bilingual: English (UK)-Turkish
    Merhaba, thanks for the reply and the explanation for the root. From what you're saying, I gather that the word muhatap (or a similar form) is not used as the same way in Arabic, but there are other words from the same root that are used.

    What about an English equivalent to it. Would you think "addressee" would be an alternative, or do you think it sounds too formal and wouldn't be used in daily life. (Note. I just saw your second message, thanks)

    Teşekkürler (şkr?)
     
  8. MarcB Senior Member

    US English
    Kardorion,

    خُطْبَة خِطَاب
    disquisition , communication , harangue , oration , note , letter , speech , sermon , treatise , address
    خَطِيب public speaker , preacher , orator , speaker , rhetorician
    Teşekkürler (şkr?)= تشكر teshkur verb,شكراً shokran thanks
     
  9. kardorion Senior Member

    ionia
    Bilingual: English (UK)-Turkish
    Thanks for your explanation MarcB but I sadly don't know a single letter of Arabic - well maybe just alif - and that' only if it's alone. Could you rewrite them in latin letters please.
     
  10. Mahaodeh Senior Member

    Arabic and English
    It's possible to use it in that way in Arabic with a little bit of alteration in the way the sentence is constructed. However, I doubt it's possible in English.

    This is the way the root can be used in this sense (others are possible)

    Khaataba: verb in the past tense meaning to speak, to converse, to direct speech to.

    Khaatab al malik al raiyya : the king spoke to/addressed the people

    Mukhataba: verbal noun / masdar (source): the act of speaking to/listening to/addressing others/speeches

    'ala al-hakim mukhatabat al jamaheer : the governor/ruler should converse with/speak to/address the people

    Mukhatab: verbal noun / ism maf'oul: the one spoken to - I'm guessing this is what muhatap originally was.

    anta al mukhatab fasma' ma aqoul : you are the one spoken to so listen to what I'm saying

    Mukhatib: verbal noun / ism fa'il: The one doing the speaking - the speaker (in common speech or conversation)

    Mukhatibuka rajulun thakki : the one speaking to you is a cleaver man.

    Khateeb: noun: a speaker (in public speach such as addressing an assembly, committee, the people...etc.)

    Sa'ada al khateebu 'ala al-minassa : the speaker climbed the pedestal

    Khutba: noun: a speach

    HaDharna khutabat il-jum'a : we attended the Friday speech (i.e. preach).

    Khitab: verbal noun / masdar: the act of adressing somone/some group of people.

    al-khitab muuajahun ilaika : the speach is directed to you.

    Khitab: noun: a letter, a communication, a note

    Ja'ani khitabu al-ta'een: I received the employment note/letter

    Khataba: verb: to make a speech

    Khataba al-khateebu khutabat al jumu'a (too many kh-t-b here, I couldn't help it :)) : meaning "the preacher delivered the Friday sermon" - literally it says: the speaker spoke the Friday speech. :)

    I hope this was useful.
     
  11. kardorion Senior Member

    ionia
    Bilingual: English (UK)-Turkish
    Thanks so much, it was very interesting to read your explanation, and very useful indeed. I'm sure, as you said, your Mukhatab is the our muhatap, it's used in the same way and meaning.
    I suppose I'll stop hoping for an English equivalent - sometimes there is no such thing. Thanks.
     
  12. orhan

    orhan Junior Member

    Türkiye
    Turquie/Turc
    Muhatap>interlocutor> Konuşulan kişi, konuşulacak kişi

    Sizi kendime muhatap almıyorum> Sizi konuşulacak kişi görmüyorum
    Siz muhatabım değilsiniz> Siz konuşacağım kişi değilsiniz
    Muhatabı>konuştuğu kişi
    Bu tarzda.
     
  13. Sheikh_14 Senior Member

    English- United Kingdom, Urdu, Punjabi
    The Turkish usage of Muhatep is peculiarly close it seems to the English word interlocuter as Orhan has suggested. According to your examples set forth: 1. "I won't be muhatap with him" - meaning "I won't speak to him - I won't be involved with him".
    2. "In this case Mr.X is your muhatap" - meaning "In this case you should speak to Mr.X--------; the Turkish Muhatep is a hybrid of the Arabic terms Mukhatib and Mukhatab in other words rather than suggesting who is the addressor (speaker) and who is the addressed (spoken to), it instead just means being locked in interlocution. This is in accordance with what I have understood. In Urdu and Arabic Mukhatib means the addressor and Mukhatab the adressed but in Turkish Muhatep means anyone engaged in a conversation. This I suspect has happened since Turkish doesn't have an equivalent for both thence its usage is short and snappy.
     
  14. yavuzotar Junior Member

    Tekirdağ
    Turkish
    Dear Sheikh_14, with all due respect, there is no "mukhatep" in Turkish language, it is "muhatab (or more commonly, muhatap)". "Interlocutor" is the correct English word, and it IS used, contrary to what Cardorion says about the frequency of usage in English. Still, I share Cardorion's feeling that something is missing, something I cannot fully put forward succinctly, when we correspond "muhatap" with "interlocutor". Orada "sırıtan" bir şey var ama nedir, işin tam ruhunu anlatmıyor İngilizcesi.
     

Share This Page