Nem is igaz

Discussion in 'Magyar (Hungarian)' started by NagyKiss, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. NagyKiss Senior Member

    A fürdőszoba kicsi, de nem baj! Az a lényeg, hogy van! Nem is igaz, hogy van saját fürdőszobánk, mosdónk, erkélyünk.

    Does it mean something like "isn't it true, when we have our own ..."?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2013
  2. Zsanna

    Zsanna ModErrata

    Hungary
    Hungarian - Hungary
    I think it indicates: I can't believe it! (Expressing something like surprise/disbelief/some relief and satisfaction, too here because it must have been a "long and tiring way" to get as far as that.)

    Word by word it would be "It's not (even) true" but it cannot be translated like that because it is a set phrase that expresses I find it difficult to believe that we've got as far as that, that we've got as much as that (depending on the sentence after the first "that").
     
  3. francisgranada Senior Member

    Slovakia
    Hungarian
    I'd rather translate it: "It's not (even) true that we have ...." (not when). I agree with Zsanna that in this context it serves to express surprise/disbelief or something like this, however I think this works also in other langages (surely in Italian and Slovak). In other words, I'm not sure that this is a true set phrase in Hungarian ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  4. Zsanna

    Zsanna ModErrata

    Hungary
    Hungarian - Hungary
    Francis, it certainly doesn't work in French (je n'en reviens pas) and my hunch is that neither does it in Italian (example thread: non posso credere). (Apart from the English, as we can see it.)
    In any case, when an expression means something different than what it says word by word (here - practically - the opposite!), one can suppose very easily that it is a set phrase...:)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  5. NagyKiss Senior Member

    It really pisses me off when a text book on Hungarian contains stuff like this in 5th lesson without any explanation at all. Anyway thanks.
     
  6. francisgranada Senior Member

    Slovakia
    Hungarian
    I do not want to contradict you, Zsanna, but it think that "Non è (neanche) vero che abbiamo il nostro bagno ... !" has the same sense as in Hungarian (depending on the context, of course). And vice versa, "Nem is igaz, hogy van saját fürdőszobánk", according to the context, can also express exactly what it literally means ...

    Or, is there something that have not noticed or I don't understand? ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  7. Zsanna

    Zsanna ModErrata

    Hungary
    Hungarian - Hungary
    NagyKiss, if it can cheer you up: it is used very often and the same form can also be used in the word by word meaning with a little twist because of the "is" which (in this case) indicates that the speaker e.g. formulates a complaint contradicting what another speaker has just said.

    Example: two sisters run to mummy, one says that the other did something wrong - to which the other will (surely) say: Nem is igaz! (in a special tone, but meaning "It is not true!") wanting to indicate that the sister is just saying it out of spite or in order that she (the speaker) receives punishment - in any case, it is impossible to know who is right and who is wrong in such a case - but the message is there that "the other wants to put me in difficulty by saying that and in my surprise I cannot bring up a proof for my defence, I can only deny it indignified".
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  8. Zsanna

    Zsanna ModErrata

    Hungary
    Hungarian - Hungary
    Yes, it is true but then it is used in its "normal" meaning.
    We can stay with the English for that. It is not the same to say:

    1. It is not (even) true that we have a bathroom... (=> we don't have one, really, no matter who claims otherwise - as an answer to some accusation e.g.)
    2. I can't believe we have a bathroom! (i.e., e.g. at last!) (=> we do have one and it is something we've been longing for)

    The first is what I'd call the "normal" meaning and the second is a set phrase (or whatever: expression, collocation...) which shouldn't be taken literally because it means the opposite. (With some emotional extra.:))
     
  9. francisgranada Senior Member

    Slovakia
    Hungarian
    I see and I do agree, but once more: I think that "(Ma) Non è vero che (finalmente) abbiamo il nostro bagno ... !" can be interpreted/used as an expression of surprise etc., also in Italian (and, as far as I know, in some other languages, too), also in case when "finally/incredibly/de facto” we already do have our own bathroom.

    P.S. I don't know (a question for NagyKiss) whether this works also in Russian ... I.e. something like "(Этo) Нeпрaвдa, чтo y нac ... !" could be interpreted/used as an expression of surprise/disbelief etc. (depending on the context/intonation etc.) or absolutely not?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  10. Zsanna

    Zsanna ModErrata

    Hungary
    Hungarian - Hungary
    I cannot decide for sure but it is off topic.
     

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