non è segnalato dalle indicazioni

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by vemecle, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. vemecle Junior Member

    Italian
    Hi guys! I need some help....
    How would you translate this sentence???


    Questo avviene perché i frigoriferi disposti nella corsia non sono visibili né dall’ ingresso del negozio né sono segnalati delle indicazioni;


    The context is a refrigerator department section in a retail store, for indicazioni i mean "signs"

    Thanks!!!
     
  2. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    TU come lo tradurresti?
     
  3. vemecle Junior Member

    Italian
    This happened because refrigerators were placed in hidden aisles, which were neither visible from the entrance nor signaled by signs.

    mmmm...ma signaled by signs non mi convince proprio..
     
  4. Mary49

    Mary49 Senior Member

    Padova
    Italian
  5. theartichoke Senior Member

    English -- Canada
    Hi vemecle,

    I don't think "hidden aisles" conveys what you mean to say, which is that one couldn't see the refrigerators because they were in the aisle. "Hidden aisles" suggests that the aisles themselves were somehow difficult or impossible to find!

    My translation of your sentence would be "This happened because the refrigerators in the aisle are not visible from the entrance (or, "from the store's entrance"), and there are no signs (or, perhaps "is no signage") to indicate where they are."
     
  6. Hello, is it possible to say "This happened because the refrigerators in the aisle are not visible from the entrance neither they are signposted" in this case? Thank you!
     
  7. joanvillafane Senior Member

    U.S., New Jersey
    U.S. English
    Hi artichoke - I read it exactly the opposite from the way you did. I think the refrigerators are not in the aisle - but that the aisles themselves are difficult to see or find.
     
  8. theartichoke Senior Member

    English -- Canada
    I had to check this one in the Oxford English Dictionary, because my initial feeling was that you can "signpost" a place--"the refrigerator department was not well signposted"--but not a thing. The OED didn't entirely clarify things, though. It gave this definition: [h=3]a. To indicate (a place or route) with a signpost; to mark out with a signpost or signposts. Also with complement. Also fig.[/h]But in the examples given, the Royal Marines Museum (a place) was "signposted", and the only thing that was "signposted" was a set of footnotes, which, of course, is a figurative use of the term.

    At any rate, you'd say "nor are they signposted. But I'm still not sure one can literally signpost a refrigerator. Hmm.
     
  9. Hi Joan, I think this is an example where italian is particularly ambiguous. Without a full context both meanings have a way, "The fridges wich are actually placed in the aisle..." and "the fridges, in case they are placed in the aisle,...".
     
  10. Thank you very much theartichoke, I will pay more attention at how it is used in the future. But apart from the signpost issue, it was coming natural to me to write "neither are they signposted", but then I thought it was not correct to put the verb before the subject as we are not talking about an interrogative phrase here. But in fact "nor are they signposted" sounds perfectly nice to me.

    Is there any specific rule, in grammar, for this kind of inversion? Thank you very much!

    N.B. I hope not to be OT. I wasn't feeling like opening a new thread for this:).
     
  11. theartichoke Senior Member

    English -- Canada
    "Neither are they signposted" is perfectly fine, although "nor are they signposted" sounds a bit more natural to my (Canadian) ears. Unfortunately, it's beyond my grasp of grammar rules to explain why you would always say "neither/nor are they" and never, ever "neither/nor they are."

    I actually would like to keep this on topic, though, by asking how the original Italian is ambiguous. To me, it looks like it can only be read one way: if "i frigoriferi disposti nella corsia non sono visibili," it means that the refrigerators in the aisle are not visible. If the aisle itself were not visible, then "non sono visibili" would be "non é visibile." The only ambiguity I can see involved the lack of commas around "disposti nella corsia": I don't know if ONLY those refrigerators which are in the aisle aren't visible, or if ALL the refrigerators are in the aisle and therefore not visible. Could someone please explain what I'm not getting in the original Italian?
     
  12. Hi theartichoke, thank you for giving me more informations on the first issue.

    As for the second issue, I'm afraid I might have mislead you, sorry.

    Iagree that is obvious that the visibility is referred to the fridges, not to the aisle.What I wanted to say is that the italian sentence "Questo avviene perché i frigoriferi disposti nella corsia non sono visibili né dall’ ingresso del negozio né sono segnalati delle indicazioni" can be found identical in two different context.

    A - The site manager is deciding to place the new fridges in an area close to the main entrance to the store. This is because the fridges, if placed in the aisle, could have poor visibility.

    B - Sales records for the first week are being very poor. This is happening because the fridges have been placed in the aisle, where they are suffering from lack of visibility.

    In context A the fridges were actually placed in the aisle.

    In context B the fridges were not actually placed in the aisle.

    Looking at context A we may say that the problem was with the aisle, not with the fridges.

    But maybe this is not what Joan meant, and I just overinterpreted
    that:).

    I hope I haven't done things worse, now!!
    :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  13. vemecle Junior Member

    Italian
    ok then, the fact is that the fridges were not visible as they were placed in the aisle difficult to find (for this reason i wrote "hidden", because the problem was the position very far from the store's entrance of the aisle)

    I'm sorry the Italian sentence was misleandig, because "in corsia" is not appropriate in this case.


    I can writie here the whole sentence, so you can tell me if this concept is more clear. (and suggest further corrections) :)


    A similar problem regarded also the refrigerator section, in fact it emerged that consumers were able to carefully observe the wall-mounted refrigerators along the S line, placed on the right side of the department, but most of them couldn’t notice the further refrigerator area arranged at the end of the department sale space.
    Therefore, consumers had only a partial view of the whole range of products exposed in the store. The reason was probably due to the fact that refrigerators were placed in hidden aisles, which were neither visible from the entrance nor were they signposted.


    thank you so much to everyone!
     
  14. london calling Senior Member

    SALERNO, ITALY
    UK ENGLISH
    Avendo letto i vari post, concordo con la traduzione fornita da theartichoke (post 59).:)
     
  15. I've fixed the were/were not part which I obviously swapped in the previous post.

    I've only now realized that there seems to be a problem with the original italian sentence also:

    "Questo avviene perché i frigoriferi disposti nella corsia non sono visibili né dall’ ingresso del negozio né sono segnalati delle indicazioni" doesn't sound good to me. It should be: "Questo avviene perché i frigoriferi disposti nella corsia non sono visibili dall’ ingresso del negozio né sono segnalati dalle indicazioni" or, but less natural "Questo avviene perché i frigoriferi disposti nella corsia sono visibili dall’ ingresso del negozio, né sono segnalati dalle indicazioni".

    Anyway, after more context was given, I can only agree with LC.
     

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