noncelibate homosexuals

Discussion in 'French-English Vocabulary / Vocabulaire Français-Anglais' started by Fantaghiro, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. Fantaghiro Senior Member

    Bonsoir à tous, :)

    Quel est le sens de cette expression ?

    "Less than two decades later, in 2009, official tolerance for individuals with homosexual tendencies had transposed into something else: official approval of the sexual practice of homosexuality, enshrined in the decision to allow noncelibate homosexuals to serve as pastors."

    "homosexuels non chastes" (?) Cf. inspiration wordreference. Autre chose ?

  2. jann

    jann co-mod'

    English - USA
    Vous avez bien compris le sens de l'expression.

    celibate a deux significations:
    1. unmarried
    2. abstaining from sexual intercourse

    Il me semble qu'on utilise surtout la seconde définition en anglais, ce qui fait qu'on peut être unmarried sans être celibate.

    Dans le contexte en question, un (ou une) non-celibate homosexual, c'est donc une personne d'orientation homosexuelle qui a (ou qui cherche, etc.) un(e) partenaire dans sa vie amoureuse/sexuelle.
  3. Fantaghiro Senior Member

    Thanks jann, :)

    So if I change the sentence, that would be something like "permettre aux homosexuels actifs sexuellement d’officier comme pasteurs." ? It seems rather weird, since homosexuality is forbidden, as well as having sex without being married...
  4. jann

    jann co-mod'

    English - USA
    I think that's the point of the sentence. ;) Some faith communities are changing and modernizing, becoming more accepting of things that were once "forbidden," notably homosexuality.

    The author of your text implies that about 20 years ago, there was some sort of "official tolerance" for members of the church community with homosexual orientation. This manifested itself in policy towards homosexual pastors: presumably, if you were a gay pastor but you didn't act on your homosexual orientation, then the church would just ignore it. This was a more relaxed stance than the historical condemnation/persecution of homosexuals, but these pastors were none-the-less obliged to adopt a life of celibacy (sexual abstinence), unlike their heterosexual counterparts.

    The author says that by 2009, the church's position had evolved even further, to a fuller acceptance of homosexuality within the faith community. As evidence, the author cites that there is now official approval of homosexual pastors. Since there are many places where gay marriage or civil union is not legal, it's not possible to link this acceptance of homosexual pastors (and homosexuality in general) to marriage. Presumably the church does want to see their homosexual pastors and congregationers in committed relationships, like those of their married heterosexual counterparts.

    Certainly Christianity does not condone pre-marital sex. But since Protestant pastors can marry and divorce, they can also be single and dating. For the most part, I suspect the church avoids sticking its nose into what an unmarried pastor does in his or her private life, provided that the pastor's behavior is discreet. Whether or not a pastor has premarital sex is thus largely a matter for his or her own conscience, independent of sexual orientation.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2014
  5. Fantaghiro Senior Member

    Thanks for these explanations, jann! I realize that pastors are quite different from the Catholic priests. I thought it was mostly about meing married, but it appears that there's much more to see here.
    The author doesn't seem to approuve of such changes though. :rolleyes: Too bad for her...
  6. jann

    jann co-mod'

    English - USA
    Yes, while the pastor and the priest both help to guide the faithful, I believe the requirements and expectations that their respective churches place on them can be quite different. There are also differences within the various Protestant denominations.

    I have made some edits tothe post above to fix some things that weren't clear.
  7. Fantaghiro Senior Member

    Everything is clear for me! Thanks for the help!!!
  8. wildan1

    wildan1 Moderando ma non troppo

    NB: Unlike the French pasteur, in English a pastor is not specific to the Protestant religion; it designates in certain Christian communities (including the Roman Catholic one) the primary clergy in a church. So your quotation could apply to Catholic, Episcopalian/Anglican and several other Protestant religions whose churches are headed by pastors.
  9. jann

    jann co-mod'

    English - USA
    Actually, in this case, I think we can be sure we're talking about members of the Protestant clergy. With the exception of Anglican converts, I believe the Roman Catholic church mandates clerical celibacy... so it would be improbable for the official policy mentioned in Fantaghiro's source text to be a Catholic one. :p I confess I also had a little extra information: in the last few days, Fantaghiro has been asking a lot of questions that seem to come from the same text about Protestantism, and presumably this is from the same source.

    As a matter of general reference, that's a great point... but as I undestand it, it is only in U.S. usage that "pastor" can refer to a local church leader in the Roman Catholic faith; I believe the term used elsewhere would be "parish priest." In most of the English-speaking world, I'm under the impression that a "pastor" is indeed Protestant. :)

    Cambridge dictionary: pastor (US) / pastor (UK)
    Webster (American usage only): pastor
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2014
  10. archijacq Senior Member

    french France
    homosexuels vivant en couple
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2014
  11. Fantaghiro Senior Member

    Merci à tous pour vos explications ! :)
  12. ain'ttranslationfun? Senior Member

    US English
    I thought "pasteur" is usually given as (Protestant) "minister"?
  13. wildan1

    wildan1 Moderando ma non troppo

    In US Catholic usage, a parish priest is any priest serving in a parish church (un curé); the pastor is the senior parish priest if the church has more than one, and any other priest is known as an associate pastor.

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