Norwegian: the place of "ikke" in subordinate clauses

Discussion in 'Nordic Languages' started by Xander2024, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. Xander2024 Senior Member

    Southern Russia
    Russian
    Hei alle sammen,

    could someone please tell me if "ikke" has to be put right after the subject and can't be put after the auxiliary verb:

    "Jeg er glad du ikke har brukket noe".

    Would it be a mistake to say "Jeg er glad du har ikke brukket noe"? Or does it depend on whether it is a subordinate clause or not? For example, if we leave out the "Jeg er glad", will it be "Du har ikke brukket noe" or does "ikke" remain after the subject? :confused:

    Takk på forhånd.
     
  2. NorwegianNYC Senior Member

    New York, NY, USA
    Norwegian
    Inversion, is the answer. Subordinate clauses, as well as main clauses starting with a local or temporal expression, or object, will reverse the word order. Normally, you would say "har ikke" (Jeg har ikke brukket noe"), but since a conditional/subordinate clause initiates the sentence, you will have to invert the word order. (Jeg er glad [conditional] du ikke har brukket noe]
     
  3. Xander2024 Senior Member

    Southern Russia
    Russian
    Tusen takk for eksplikasjonen, NorwegianNYC.
     
  4. Dan2

    Dan2 Senior Member

    US
    US English
    I could be wrong, but I've always thought of (1) and (2) as different phenomena, with different effects on word order:

    Main clause - normal order: Du har ikke brukket noe.
    Main clause with sentence-initial adverb - inversion of subject and verb: Heldigvis har du ikke brukket noe.
    Subordinate clause - movement of "ikke" to before verb: Jeg er glad du ikke har brukket noe.

    Note (I believe) that if there is no "ikke" in the subordinate clause, then there is no change at all between main and subordinate:
    Du har brukket noe.
    Jeg er glad du har brukket noe.:tick:
    Jeg er glad har du brukket noe.:cross:
    So there is no inversion due to a main clause simply being made subordinate.

    Please correct any misunderstandings on my part. Thanks.
     
  5. NorwegianNYC Senior Member

    New York, NY, USA
    Norwegian
    Hi Dan,

    I believe the sentence "Jeg er glad har du brukket noe" is incorrect. The correct way of expressing it (albeit the sentiment is somewhat disturbing...) is: "Jeg er glad du har brukket noe."
     
  6. Xander2024 Senior Member

    Southern Russia
    Russian
    Thanks, Dan. :)
     
  7. Xander2024 Senior Member

    Southern Russia
    Russian
    One more question: does "ikke" remain after the subject in constructions like "I know that he could not have done it"?
    Will it be "Jeg vet at han ikke kunne ha gjort det"?

    Takk.
     
  8. basslop

    basslop Senior Member

    Norway
    Norwegian
    Yes
     
  9. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
     

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