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oppose reform as a "government takeover" [oppose as]

Discussion in 'English Only' started by agerassot, Sep 20, 2009.

  1. agerassot Junior Member

    Arabic
    Hi, everybody.

    This is my first post this beautiful forum.

    mmmmm,

    What does " oppose as ...... " mean?


    " [FONT=&quot]Now, my health care proposal has also been attacked by some who oppose reform as a "government takeover" of the entire health care system."[/FONT]
     
  2. Harry Batt

    Harry Batt Senior Member

    Minneapolis
    USA English
    This would mean that the speaker feels that a critic of this proposal is really someone who opposes reform in general .
     
  3. agerassot Junior Member

    Arabic
    can I say that his reform will be already as [FONT=&quot]"government takeover" of the entire health care system", so his critic look at his proposal as [/FONT][FONT=&quot]a "government takeover" of the entire health care system."

    or,

    the speaker does not agree with what his critic considers his reform [/FONT][FONT=&quot]a "government takeover" of the entire health care system " , since he offer a reform that is not exactly like that.?[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
     
  4. GreenWhiteBlue

    GreenWhiteBlue Senior Member

    New York
    USA - English
    I think you have misunderstood the difference between what something actually is, and the way someone may perceive it.

    Consider these:

    I see my experiences in school as less important than my life at home during the same time.

    That is: I see school AS [X]

    While the other dishes found there are unimpressive, I recommend Greenwhite Hamburgers as the best hamburger restaurant in the world.

    That is: I recommend Greenwhite Hamburgers AS [X]

    John thinks of Steven as his friend, and Joseph as his enemy.

    That is: John thinks of Stevine AS [X], and John thinks of Joseph AS [Y].

    In the example given, the opposition comes from the fact that the opponents cionsider reform to be a "government takeover."
     
  5. Forero Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA English
    Here as means something like (EDIT 1: roughly speaking [see GWB's examples with as]) "that is an example of":

    Now, my health care proposal has also been attacked by some who oppose reform as a "government takeover" of the entire health care system.

    = Some (people) have attacked my health care proposal who oppose reform (that is) an example (in their minds) of a "government takeover" of the entire health care system.

    The speaker says, in other words, that some oppose reform, believing that reform is a "government takeover", and they have attacked the speaker's proposal.

    EDIT 2: I changed my mind after James's post (#6).

    Does this help?

     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  6. JamesM

    JamesM à la Mod

    Hmm... I wouldn't quite interpret it that way. To me its:

    My health care proposal has also been attacked by X.

    X is "some (people) who oppose reform".

    The attack has come in the form of a characterization of the proposal as a "government takeover" of the entire health care system.

    In other words, it could be rearranged in this order:


    [FONT=&quot]Now, some (people) who oppose reform have attacked my health care proposal as a "government takeover" of the entire health care system."[/FONT]

    I'm not convinced that the sentence says that the people believe it to be a government takeover but have taken that position in their attack. It's a subtle distinction but a valid one, I think.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  7. Forero Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA English
    In other words, some are attacking the proposal as a "government takeover", not opposing reform as a "government takeover". That makes more sense.

    I am still unable to find the right words to substitute for as, and my dictionaries are no help. GWB's examples still apply. "Characterization of the proposal as a 'government takeover'" is another example.

    I think what is happening is that the as phrase is modifying both the noun phrase, my health care proposal, and the verb, has been attacked.
     
  8. Kevin Beach

    Kevin Beach Senior Member

    "As" is often used as a shorthand term for a longer phrase denoting perception. [FONT=&quot]In this case, the full phrase would be something like "because they see it as". Thus:

    Now, my health care proposal has also been attacked by some who oppose reform because they see it as as a "government takeover" of the entire health care system.[/FONT]
     
  9. JamesM

    JamesM à la Mod

    It may be my particular bias coloring things for me, but I think in this case it's more like:

    Now, my health care proposal has also been attacked by some who oppose reform who characterize it as a "government takeover" of the entire health care system.
     
  10. Forero Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA English
    I agree with JamesM's interpretation.

    I am still looking for a way to say "who characterize it as" without using as (since the original poster did not seem to understand the as). Is "considering it to be" close enough?
     
  11. agerassot Junior Member

    Arabic
    very great help here,


    thank all of you,,

    but, now, i find two different understanding of the sentence, here they are:

    1) reform opposed as a " government takeover." ( GWB, Feror1, KB,JM2)
    2) health care proposal attacked as a " government takeover." (JM1, Feror2)

    sooooo, which is actually most possible and making sence of the given sentnce?

    thank you all of you,,,
     
  12. Kevin Beach

    Kevin Beach Senior Member

    It's definitely the reform which is seen as a government takeover, not the proposal.
     
  13. agerassot Junior Member

    Arabic
    Shall we ask the Pres. himself?

    hhhhh,

    really
     
  14. Forero Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA English
    I was (temporarily) misled by the form of the question (with "oppose as"), but I believe I heard the President say this, and the intonation pattern I remember was like:

    Now, my health care proposal has also been attacked, by some who oppose reform, as a "government takeover" of the entire health care system.

    If I remember correctly, his intonation did not put "reform as" in one phrase.

    Is the speech audio available online?

     
  15. agerassot Junior Member

    Arabic
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/health_care/

    in 22:14

    his intonation was like

    Now, my health care proposal has also been attacked, by some who oppose reform as a, "government takeover" of the entire health care system.


    but I am getting to understand that his proposal attacked as a " government takeover"

    while "by some who oppose reform" is just like a phrase thatwe can drop without missing the original meaning, so it could be like
    Now, my health care proposal has also been attacked as a "government takeover" of the entire health care system.

    think?
     
  16. Forero Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA English
    My computer does not accept this video format, so I will have to verify the intonation tomorrow on another computer.

    The way JamesM and I are interpreting the statement, the by phrase has meaning but is separate from the as phrase. The President was making his own characterization at the same time he was answering to someone else's.

    In other words, he was saying that some considered his proposal to be a "takeover", that they opposed reform, and that they attacked his proposal.
     

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