Pang-ilang planeta ang mundo mula sa araw?

Discussion in 'Tagalog and Filipino Languages' started by alkor, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. alkor New Member

    Swedish
    I am trying to help myself learn Tagalog. I've already learned how to ask questions like ano, saan, sino, bakit etc. Now, it seems that magkano is used to ask "how much" and ilan is used to ask "how many" but what does it mean if you ask pang-ilan? Is there an exact term for this in English? Thanks a lot
     
  2. DotterKat Moderator

    California, USA
    English (American)
    Pang-ilan = Ordinal number

    Pang-ilang planeta ang mundo mula sa araw? = What is the Earth's / the planet's ordinal number in relation to its distance from the sun?
     
  3. niernier

    niernier Senior Member

    Manila, Philippines
    Bicol & Filipino
    Well, this is interesting. How do you say, "Pang ilan ka sa pila?" in English?
     
  4. DotterKat Moderator

    California, USA
    English (American)
    (from niernier) How do you say, "Pang ilan ka sa pila?" in English?

    >>>>>>>>>
    Depending on the situation, there could be lots of ways to say that.
    Assuming that it is a short line, let's say for a coffee shop and you are able to visually ascertain somebody's "number" on the line, you could say:

    "What number were you in the queue?"
    (To which somebody might answer: I was first / third / fifth in the line / queue.)

    If the line is much longer and there is no certainty as to somebody's ordinal position, you might simply ask:
    "Where were you in the queue / line?"
    (To which somebody might answer: I was towards the end of the line / I was close to the door / I was on the sidewalk.)

    If the people in line are timed-ticket holders, let's say for a museum or other heavily visited tourist spot for which numbered tickets are issued, you might say:
    "What number were you holding in the queue?"
    "What was your ticket number in the line?
    "What was your number for the noon opening?"
    "What ticket number did you have?"

    Obviously, there could be more permutations to this line of questioning.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2010
  5. niernier

    niernier Senior Member

    Manila, Philippines
    Bicol & Filipino
    Bat di ko naisip yun...ang dali-dali lang pala. Ang bobo ko talaga. hehe Heto, no idea na talaga ako dito. "Pang ilan ka sa magkakapatid?" My instict says "What's your sibling number?" but I believe it's wrong. Or would you say it that way? So how do you say that in English? You see, I'm figuring out ways how to construct sentences in English that would normally use pang-ilan in Tagalog.

    Thanks!
    -Nier
     
  6. rockjon Senior Member

    English
    Nier, "what's your sibling number?" doesn't sound right to me in English. I know it it doesn't translate directly into the Tagalog you used but the closest thing to me in "Pang ilan ka sa magkakapatid" is "In what order were you born?"
     
  7. niernier

    niernier Senior Member

    Manila, Philippines
    Bicol & Filipino
    I am very new to this. Ewan, parang masyadong deep kung sasabihin sa English. Salamat na rin. :)
     
  8. DotterKat Moderator

    California, USA
    English (American)
    At the risk of sounding facetious, read these sentences (and just indulge me):

    What's your sibling number? I have three, so there's four of us altogether.
    In what order were you born? Head first.

    Don't fall into the usual trap of trying to translate every word. The closest literal translation for pang-ilan would be the verb numbered. The verbatim translation you are looking for would be something along the lines of:

    You are numbered what among your siblings?
    Though the above is perfectly understandable in the context of an ongoing conversation, I have a problem with planting the interrogative pronoun in the middle rather than in its customary primary position in the sentence. In which case, a more correct, albeit still unsatisfactory, way to say this would be:
    What is your number among your siblings?
    Again, though the above sentence is quite understandable, it still sounds odd to me.

    In the end, I think that your question "Pang ilan ka sa magkakapatid?" can be expressed correctly by any of the following:
    What is your sibling position?
    What is your ordinal position among your siblings?
    What is your sibling ordinal position?

    Yes, the above sentences sound clinical. In fact, if you look up articles on Psychology relating to birth order studies, that is exactly how it would be phrased. Still, the three alternatives I gave are grammatically correct and succinct ways of translating your Tagalog text, "Pang ilan ka sa magkakapatid?", in my humble opinion.
     
  9. rockjon Senior Member

    English
    @dotterkat: the three sentences at the bottom might be grammatically correct but I think they sound weird to me just because this question in my experience isn't commonly asked in English and they sound a bit scientific. Though, I think that question is asked more often in the Philippines. Filipinos seem to place more emphasis on birth order than Americans though I'm not sure of other English speaking countries. The emphasis is kind of reflected in terms of words in the forms of kuya, ate, bunso, panganay in Tagalog.
     
  10. DotterKat Moderator

    California, USA
    English (American)
    I absolutely agree that those sentences sound technical, and I admitted as much in my last post. The point I am driving at is that sometimes a direct translation is not possible without resorting to precise, albeit scientific, terminology. In one stand-alone and more conversational-sounding sentence, one could say:

    In what order were you and your siblings born?

    The above is quite understandable and correct, but does not include an equivalent for pang-ilan as a single noun or nominal phrase (e.g. sibling position), which is what the question was all about.

    Having said all that, you are quite right in your astute observation about the richness of Tagalog vocabulary in regards to familial relationship terms.
     
  11. Pinoy Tsinoy New Member

    To make things complicated, there is a parallel expression "ika-ilan". Ika-ilang ulit mo nang ginawa iyon?
     
  12. PadrePio New Member

    Filipino & English
    I think that expression is much easier to translate into English.

    "How many time have you done that?"
     
  13. Pinoy Tsinoy New Member

    "How many times have you done that?" would be translated as "Ilang ulit mo nang ginawa iyon?" "Ika-" would denote a sequence, so "Ika-ilan" may be awkwardly translated as "How many timeth"!!!
     
  14. AskLang Senior Member

    Manila
    Filipino
    I have once heard this, though I'm not sure now if it's correct, since no one seems to have given it as a suggestion.

    How do you come among your siblings?

    As I look up the dictionary now, the closest meanings for 'come' to work here are 'take place; occur in time; rank' as -

    How does Marcos come among the Philippine presidents?

    And since I am no English native, I'll certainly still leave it to the hands of the experts. ;)
     
  15. demerith New Member

    Tagalog and English
    Um, I hate to say this but, "How do you come..." is not a phrase you would want to use in English unless you're in a private situation...

    None of these sentences work for me in English in terms of asking about birth order. Colloquially, Americans at least tend to just say, "Are you the eldest?" or "Are you the youngest?" and then the person explains what order they are in the family. More rarely, I've heard "What order are you in your family?" which would be something like "Ano'ng hanay mo sa pamilya mo?" Hanay might be a bit deep, because maybe most people at least in Manila would just say "order."
     
  16. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    We have 9 planets in our Solar System, in what position /order our planet belong? 3rd! ( may siyam na planeta na nakahanay sa Araw, Sa pang ilan nabibilang ang Daigdig natin?Pangatlo.) Pang-ilan= the position/order it/we belong
     
  17. Radical_Ed New Member

    Filipino - Tagalog
    "Pang-ilang planeta ang mundo mula sa araw?"

    "How many planets are there from sun to Earth?"
     

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