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Pay for at the hotel (dos preposiciones juntas)

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by carmenvp, Jan 25, 2013.

  1. carmenvp New Member

    mexican spanish
    Lei esta frase: Tonight is paid for at the hotel.. Nuca había visto juntos : "for at" que quiere deicir y en que casos se usa?
    Gracias
     
  2. kayokid

    kayokid Senior Member

    Chicago
    English, USA
    Hello. This is a perfect example of how people talk but of something that is not really a "good" sentence, in my mind anyway...

    The sentence means: "The night's lodging at the hotel is paid for." "We paid for tonight's lodging at the hotel." "Tonight's stay at the hotel is paid for."
     
  3. nwon Senior Member

    Northwestern Ontario
    Inglés canadiense
    Siempre se usa "for" tras el verbo "to pay". Piénsalo como una parte del verbo en lugar de dos preposiciones juntas.
     
  4. kayokid

    kayokid Senior Member

    Chicago
    English, USA
    :thumbsup:

    Exactly.
     
  5. Biffo Senior Member

    England
    English - England
    I don't have a problem with putting prepositions together. As the others have said - "to pay for" is a verb and should be seen as a unit.

    Here's a slightly different example.

    Purchases should be paid for at the till.

    I'm not sure that it could easily be rearranged to separate the prepositions:
     
  6. kayokid

    kayokid Senior Member

    Chicago
    English, USA
    Very valid point. I wonder why this sentence sounds fine to me and the other one just rubs me the wrong way somehow... I can't explain it.
     
  7. carmenvp New Member

    mexican spanish
    Oh! Claro, "paid for" ahora tiene sentido.
    Mil gracias
     
  8. Wandering JJ

    Wandering JJ Senior Member

    England
    British English
    Probably because we'd normally say: 'Tonight's hotel is (already) paid for'.
     
  9. kayokid

    kayokid Senior Member

    Chicago
    English, USA
    Right. Or some other re-wording of the original.
     
  10. Wandering JJ

    Wandering JJ Senior Member

    England
    British English
    I should have expanded. You don't get out your platinum Visa and pay at the hotel; you pay the hotel, unless they are referring to a lady of the night when any additional charges have been taken care of at the hotel by a third party;)
     
  11. kayokid

    kayokid Senior Member

    Chicago
    English, USA
    Aside from this possibility -- hehehe, I was thinking that I would probably say:

    The hotel room is already paid for for tonight. And now look what I have done: 'for for'in my sentence. It's worse than the original.Yikes!
     
  12. Cenzontle

    Cenzontle Senior Member

    English, U.S.
    Let's talk about the passive voice.
    I think we can say the Spanish passive is formed only on the basis of an "underlying" direct object.
    • "El comité redactó una carta." > "La carta fue escrita por un comité."
    BUT the English passive can be based on a direct object, as above ("The letter was written..."),
    or an indirect object ("John was given a number and told to be seated"),
    or sometimes (not always) the object of a preposition:
    • "We have paid for the hotel" > "The hotel has been paid for"
    • "Someone has sat in this chair" > "The chair has been sat in"
    • "I think of him as a scoundrel" > "He is thought of as a scoundrel"
    • "We can get around these regulatons" > "The regulations can be gotten around"
    I don't see it working for "with":
    • "You should go with the children" > *"The children should be gone with":cross:
    Well, maybe...
    • "He's cooperative: you can work with him" > "He can be worked with."
     
  13. Wandering JJ

    Wandering JJ Senior Member

    England
    British English
    Nice one! Although it looks strange in print, I can imagine saying it without a second thought: the first for is stressed and the second for is very weak. I like it.
     
  14. Biffo Senior Member

    England
    English - England
    I would say this as well. :thumbsup:

    A note for non-natives: the second 'for' is de-emphasized. In English RP it would sound like "The hotel room is already paid for f'tonight."

    I don't know how Scottish or US pronunciation would go.
     
  15. nwon Senior Member

    Northwestern Ontario
    Inglés canadiense
    "The hotel room is paid for fer the night". When 'for' is a part of the verb, we pronounce it clearly, but the regular preposition gets reduced to 'fer'.
     
  16. inib

    inib Senior Member

    La Rioja, Spain
    British English
    Don't worry about piling up your prepositions/adverbs :D . I bet someone can beat this: Did you hear what he came out with on Monday?
     
  17. Biffo Senior Member

    England
    English - England
    We're getting off-topic now but the following supposedly has a world record for the most prepositions at the end of a sentence.

    Then there's the little girl who always had a bedtime story before she went to sleep. she had one book, downstairs in the family shelf, full of stories that upset her. One night, her mother came in holding that book. The child said, "Mama, what did you bring the one I don't like to be read to out of up for?"
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=4049696

    :D
     
  18. inib

    inib Senior Member

    La Rioja, Spain
    British English
    Well done! Can anyone beat it (even if they're not right at the end of the sentence)?
    EDIT: Even I can. You only have to add "at this time of night" to the end of the sentence.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  19. Biffo Senior Member

    England
    English - England
    Hehe!

    Of course this would no longer qualify as the greatest number of prepositions at the end of a sentence.

    I don't know if there is a record for prepositions within a sentence. :)
     

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