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perfekt into into passive satz

Discussion in 'Deutsch (German)' started by chalid52, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. chalid52 Junior Member

    Indonesia
    some say that, there is two ways to change perfekt Satz into passive Satz

    first : sein + partizip II + worden
    second : sein + partizip II (called: zustandpassiv)

    my question is: when to use "sein + partizip II + worden"? and when to use zustandpassiv?
     
  2. dubitans Senior Member

    Vienna, Austria
    German - Austria
    Zustandspassiv is for a Zustand = state:

    Die Arbeit ist gemacht. - is/has been done

    Cf.
    Die Arbeit wird gemacht. - ​is/is being done


    Die Arbeit ist gemacht and Die Arbeit ist gemacht worden are largely synonymous. Both describe the result of the activity. ... worden puts equal stress on the result and the activity that has led to the result.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2013
  3. Perseas Senior Member

    Athen
    Griechisch
    A similar question:
    I was told that "Es ist festgestellt, (z.B.) dass die lange Arbeitslosigkeit zu psychischen Krankheiten führen kann" is wrong and instead I should have preferred "Es wurde festgestellt, dass ...". Why is Zustandspassiv wrong hier?
     
  4. dubitans Senior Member

    Vienna, Austria
    German - Austria
    "feststellen" has three meanings: "state/assert", "find out" and "prove". The latter meaning appears in "Die Schuld des Angeklagten ist festgestellt." = "Die Schuld des Angeklagten steht fest."
    In your sentence, the likely meaning is "find out". Albeit unlikely, "state/assert" is not impossible. With neither of those two meanings, Zustandspassiv is idiomatic. I confess I don't know why. Here's just a guess: One wouldn't say "Es ist behauptet" (first meaning) and "Es ist herausgefunden" (second meaning) either.
     
  5. Glockenblume Senior Member

    France
    Deutsch (Hochdeutsch und "Frängisch")
    If the context is written mostly in past tense, it's because the texte describes out of a perspective of past.
    But if the texte is written mostly in present tense, it would be even better to write: "Es ist festgestellt worden, das..." (description of what someone has constated)
    "Es ist festgestellt" seems indeed a bit strange to me, perhaps because the verbe implicates a processus.
    If you replace the verbe "feststellen" by the verbe "beweisen", both is possible:
    "Es ist bewiesen worden" > (description of something that someone has proofed)
    "Es ist bewiesen" > (we have the proof)

    I try to explain it to you with another verbe:
    Das Fenster ist geöffnet worden. = The window has been (or was?) opened.
    Das Fenster ist geöffnet. (= Das Fenster ist offen.) = The window is open.
    Das Fenster wird geöffnet. = The window is being opened.
     
  6. chalid52 Junior Member

    Indonesia
    Vielen Dank für ihre Antwort!
     

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