Persian: حبوب و بُقول

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by seitt, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Greetings

    This is Dehkhoda’s definition of بار:
    غله و جز آن. آنچه در دیگ ریزند از حبوب و بُقول و گوشت و جز آن پختن را.

    It is related to ‘بار کردن’ (to simmer, used especially of آبگوشت).

    Please, what do the words حبوب و بُقول mean? Does it one item or two?

    Best wishes, and many thanks,

    Simon
     
  2. Treaty Senior Member

    Australia
    Persian
    They are both Arabic.
    حبوب is plural of حب (bean, usually dry). Today we say حبوبات.
    بقول is plural of بقل (garden vegetable, herbs and also green beans). It is not used anymore in Persian. A cognate, باقلا (broad bean) is still used.
     
  3. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Much obliged to you both - what do you use nowadays in place of بقول, please?

    بنشن (bonshan), perhaps? Or the plural-of-a-plural بقولات (boqulāt)?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  4. Treaty Senior Member

    Australia
    Persian
    بنشن means "beans". However, it is not used (or even known) in everyday Persian. For بقول we use سبزیجات [sabzijāt].
     
  5. searcher123

    searcher123 Senior Member

    My home ;-) /The Persian Gulf
    Farsi/Persian/فارسي
    Unfortunately, I'm not agree. It is completely common. I'm hearing it so much in everyday Persian and even you can find it on the window of shops as their names (e.g. بنشن‌فروشي رضايي). At the present بقول is not so common and I have heard it very rarely. I'm agree with seitt that the modern equivalent of بقول is بنشن.
     
  6. Treaty Senior Member

    Australia
    Persian
    Well, maybe I've not paid enough attention. Is it also used in everyday conversations?

    بقول meant herbs, not beans (in both Dehkhoda and Almaany). So, its modern equivalent is سبزیجات.
     
  7. searcher123

    searcher123 Senior Member

    My home ;-) /The Persian Gulf
    Farsi/Persian/فارسي
    Yes, you can hear it in TV films, series, cooking programs, etc. and I have heard it of many housewives that: بنشنمون تموم شده or بار و بنشن نداريم

    You are right. Boghool even in Moin's Persian-Persian Dictionary is defined as سبزيجات. I mean "Baghool" (sorry if I forgot to clarify it). Please take a look at this page of فرهنگ فارسي امروز. As I said, Boghool is not so common at the present.
     
  8. Treaty Senior Member

    Australia
    Persian
    I looked the Arabic meaning again in Almaany. It actually means beans too, with the same pronunciation. I'm sorry for neglecting this meaning before. Interestingly, I found an Arabic example similar to Seitt's example:
    بإضافة خضراوات او حبوب او بقول مثل البسلة
    by adding greens (leafs), or beans or boqul like garden (green) pea.

    Clearly, in that context, boqul is neither سبزیجات nor حبوبات as we know them today. I think we need more Arabic knowledge to understand it thoroughly.
     
  9. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks to you all!
    Is this simply an emphatic way of saying "بنشن نداريم"?
     
  10. searcher123

    searcher123 Senior Member

    My home ;-) /The Persian Gulf
    Farsi/Persian/فارسي
    To be honest, I don't know what is the real meaning of بار at here, I just know it is not for emphasis. It is something such as خرت و پرت، كار و بار and so on.
     
  11. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Would it be possible that بار means ''fruit'' here?
     
  12. searcher123

    searcher123 Senior Member

    My home ;-) /The Persian Gulf
    Farsi/Persian/فارسي
    Unfortunately, I don't know! I hope others can help more.
     
  13. Treaty Senior Member

    Australia
    Persian
    I think باروبنشن may be short for خواربار و بنشن or خشکبار و بنشن. Iranian vegetarian ingredients were sold in three main markets (except for spices): خواربار (grains, بنشن dried beans) خشکبار (nuts and dried fruits) and تره بار (fresh beans, vegies and fruits). Traditionally, the first two were more related to each other than to the third.
     
  14. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Thank you so much, very helpful indeed.
     

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