Persian: قدر آینه بدانیم چو هست

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by aisha93, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. aisha93

    aisha93 Senior Member

    Arabic/Persian(larestani)
    Salaam

    Please can you give me the exact and literal English translation of چو here:

    قدر آینه بدانیم چو هست/ نه در آن وقت که افتاد و شکست

    Thanks
     
  2. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Let us know the worth of a mirror as it is
    Not at the time when it falls and breaks
     
  3. aisha93

    aisha93 Senior Member

    Arabic/Persian(larestani)
    Couldn't mean "as long as"?
     
  4. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Classial "cho" (modern chuu) is a contraction of "chuun" which can mean "like", "what", "how", "when" and "why". But, here it means as/like. I don't see the "as long as" meaning in this particular couplet.
     
  5. darush Senior Member

    قدر آینه بدانیم چو هست/ نه در آن وقت که افتاد و شکست

    تا وقتیکه، تا زمانیکه، مادامیکه

     
  6. Aryamp

    Aryamp Persimod

    Tehran
    Persian
    I also agree with Darush. It definitely means 'as long as' or perhaps better said in English ' while' . "as it is" implies the way it is which is obviously not the case here.
    The second part of the couplet clarifies the meaning :

    We must appreciate the mirror while it exists, not after it has fallen and shattered.
     
  7. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I would n't wish to argue with you two learned gentleman but I still feel "cho/chuu" implies "resemblence" and not "duration".

    To use aaqaa-ye-Aryamp's wording..

    We must appreciate the mirror in its original (whole) state (cho hast), not in the broken state after its fall.
     
  8. darush Senior Member

    QP SaaHib, this is a different matter(mirror!) nothing to do with 'reflecting/telling the truth'.
    (and again, confusing Farsi prepositions!:))
     
  9. تا می سوزه چراغم بیا بگیر سراغم :D

     
  10. aisha93

    aisha93 Senior Member

    Arabic/Persian(larestani)
    Thank you all.

    قدر آینه بدانیمچو هست/ نه در آن وقت که افتاد و شکست
    Now I'm sure it means "while/as long as", because هست means (to exist) which is a temporary existence for the mirror before it breaks, whereas است means (to be) which refers to the unchanging and permanent substance of something , and also the second part mentions "time وقت", so" چو" must imply duration here

    This can be confirmed by searching in Dehkhoda:

    چو: || (ق زمان ) بمعنی هنگام باشد. (برهان ). وقتی که . هنگامی که . (ناظم الاطباء). آنگاه که . زمانی که . گاهی که . بدانگاه که
     
  11. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    To me, this is "when" not "while".
     
  12. aisha93

    aisha93 Senior Member

    Arabic/Persian(larestani)
    You're right, "when" fits better here.
     
  13. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I am sorry aaqaa-ye-darush but I don't quite follow. My concern is not with any deep meaning of the lines but just superficial meaning. As far as I know "aa'iinah" means "mirror". What Farsi preposition am I confusing?
     
  14. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Could you please clarify the message of your post. Are you saying "taa" in your line is the same as "chuu"?
     
  15. No, it is indeed a poem which means exactly the same thing that Aisha93. (excuse me for my bad english :D:p)
     
  16. Aryamp

    Aryamp Persimod

    Tehran
    Persian
    I think by 'exactly the same thing' you mean it also talks about appreciating something while it lasts, other than that it's not relevant really .:D
     
  17. بله, در واقع منظورم این بود که معنا و مفهوم این دو شعر یکی است و هر دو یه جورایی می خوان بگن که قدرهرچیز رو تا زمانیکه هست و وجود داره باید دانست و وقتی از بین رفت دیگه سودی در بزرگداشت اون چیز نیست
    ;)من به محض اینکه چشمم به این بحث افتاد, ناخودآگاه یاد این جمله افتادم و گفتم گفتنش ضرر نداره

     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  18. Aryamp

    Aryamp Persimod

    Tehran
    Persian
    When in english can also mean 'while' . it's wrong to take one rigid meaning of an English word then adhere to it as the only equivalent a very rigid interpretation of another word in Persian.

    زمانی که وقتی که can signify when , while, the time etc

     
  19. aisha93

    aisha93 Senior Member

    Arabic/Persian(larestani)
    What would be the meaning of چو here?
    رفتی چو تیر وکمان شد
    از بار غم پیکر من

    It is taken from شجریان song.
     
  20. darush Senior Member

    You went(have gone) like an arrow and...
     
  21. aisha93

    aisha93 Senior Member

    Arabic/Persian(larestani)
    Thank you. But the singer stops after "shod": رفتی چو تیر وکمان شد، از بار غم پیکر من..I don't understand it!
    I have a problem with the whole sentence, can you give a simple and literal translation?

    There are the verses which precede and follow it:

    عشق تو در دل نهان شد
    دل زار و تن ناتوان شد

    رفتی چو تیر وکمان شد
    از بار غم پیکر من
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  22. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Here is the full Ghazal by Safa Isfahani (Hidden Love)

    http://saadia.blogfa.com/post/23
     
  23. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    It is good you provided the link as Aisha93 has quoted more verses than the quota allow and we know what can happen if the moderators spot it.

    It says the poet is Muhammad Isfahani, not Safa?
     
  24. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Muhammad Safa Isfahani or Safa Muhammad Isfahani. I am sure I read "Safa Isfahani" in one of the links.
     
  25. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    ^ I hope you will excuse me for this question. I have only opened your link not the others.
     
  26. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    You went like an arrow (never to return) and with the burden of my sorrow, my body became (bent) like a bow!
     
  27. Hoori

    Hoori New Member

    Iran
    Persian (Farsi)
    Here are a few example to demonstrate the difference between the meaning of چو when used in different contexts:

    چو = تا زمانی که = تا وقتی که
    = while = as long as
    قدر آیینه بدانیم چو هست ---> lets appreciate the mirror while it exists, not when it falls and gets broken.

    چو = مثل = همچون = مانند
    = like
    در بحر فتاده ام چو ماهی ---> I'm drown in the sea like a fish.

    چو = تا = وقتی = به محض اینکه
    = when = as soon as
    ...چو سهرابِ جنگاور او را بدید ---> when the brave Sohrab saw him ...
     
  28. Hoori

    Hoori New Member

    Iran
    Persian (Farsi)
    Yup. You left me like an arrow (leaves a bow) and the sorrow (your leaving brought to me) was so big that it bent me like a bow.
     
  29. aisha93

    aisha93 Senior Member

    Arabic/Persian(larestani)
    Thank you all.

    I'm afraid of sounding stupid, but in this (simile تشبيه), the "المُشَبّهُ بهِ = تیر وکمان" seems to be used twice for two different "مُشَبّه" which are "رفتن" and "پیکر", am I right?

    because that is how you translated

     
  30. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^
    raftii chu tiir

    You went like an arrow

    o-kamaan shud az baar-i-Gham, paikar-i-man

    ​and my body became a bow from the weight of sorrow

    The simile applies to "going" and the metaphor applies to the "bending". The "secret" to understanding this verse is by not thing of "tiir-o-kamaan" as a compound.
     
  31. darush Senior Member

    Bravo...SaaHib QP, you are really a Genius!
     

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