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Persian: قد علم کردن

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by seitt, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Greetings

    A sentence from the new Persian translation of the New Testament (http://www.kalameh.com/Pages/ArticleDetails.aspx?ArticleID=854#10):
    ۵ما استدلالها و هر ادعای تکبّرآمیز را که در برابر شناخت خدا قد علم کند ویران می کنیم و هر اندیشه ای را به اطاعت از مسیح اسیر می سازیم.۶و در حالِ آماده باش هستیم، تا آنگاه که اطاعت خودِ شما کامل شود، هر نااطاعتی را به مجازات رسانیم.

    How would you translate قد علم کردن, please? What is its exact pronunciation? Importantly, is there an extra kasre after قد?

    All the best, and many thanks,

    Simon
     
  2. SamiraFrancophile

    SamiraFrancophile Senior Member

    Tehran
    persian
    Hi seitt,
    قــَد عَلـَم كردن means
    to confront defiantly
    There is no kasra after قد
    Good Luck


     
  3. SamiraFrancophile

    SamiraFrancophile Senior Member

    Tehran
    persian
    In addition, قد بَر اَفراشتـَن is a synonym for it.
     
  4. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks - what is the exact meaning of قد in this expression, please?
     
  5. SamiraFrancophile

    SamiraFrancophile Senior Member

    Tehran
    persian
    It means "stature"

    قد= قامت
    علم= somehow a flag

    the expression literally means : to stand against some body like a flag, in a rebellious manner
     
  6. Treaty Senior Member

    Australia
    Persian
    علم is similar to "signum" in Roman army. However, it is usually much larger in religious ceremonies.
     
  7. Voici le portrait d'un ALAM qu'utilisent les chiites pour la cérémonie religieuse d'Achoura !
     
  8. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks to you all, most interesting about the religious connection.

    Can قــَد عَلـَم كردن mean "to defy"? E.g. این دختر بازیگوش پدرشو قد علم کرد. / خواست پدرشو قد علم کرد. (This naughty girl defied her father / defied her father's wishes.)
     
  9. Treaty Senior Member

    Australia
    Persian
    The subject of the sentence stands or rises "against/before" something, or better to say someone (در برابر, جلوی, مقابل):
    این دختر در برابر پدرش قد علم کرد
    قد علم کردن doesn't take a direct object (actually, it seems قد is the object for علم کردن)

    علم کردن means to demonstrate/put forth something obviously/publicly (often for turning attentions away from something more important).
    او اختلاس رقیبش را علم کرد تا تخلف خود را کمرنگ جلوه دهد = he projected his rival's embezzlement to overshadow his own illegal deed.

    In the case of قد علم کردن, it seems that the subject clearly demonstrates their stance قد (which is a sign or resistance, honour and power) in front of their supposedly stronger opponent.
     
  10. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Wow, I'm gobsmacked! What an excellent explanation - thank you so much.
     

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