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Persian: هرچه كني به خود كني، گر همه نيك و بد كني

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by seitt, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Hi

    This is courtesy of Morteza:
    هرچه كني به خود كني، گر همه نيك و بد كني

    For some reason I don't understand the grammar behind it well.

    Does the first part (هرچه كني به خود كني) mean, “Whatever you do, do it to yourself”?

    Is it Literary Persian? Is گر “if”? What does همه mean here?

    All the best, and many thanks,

    Simon
     
  2. Bonjour,

    Oui :thumbsup:

    Cela signifie :
    Quoi que vous fassiez, le résultat (que ce soit mal ou bien) vous retourne à vous-même.
    گر = si
    همه = tout
     
  3. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Merci beacoup, excellent.
    Many thanks, excellent.
     
  4. searcher123

    searcher123 Senior Member

    My home ;-) /The Persian Gulf
    Farsi/Persian/فارسي
    What does it mean please? My taking of this sentence is:
    هركاري كه تو انجام مي‌دهي، براي منافع خودت انجام بده و فقط به فكر خودت باش

    Am I right? If yes, the meaning of هرچه كني به خود كني، گر همه نيك و بد كني is different. This proverb mean:


    هركاري كه تو انجام مي‌دهي ﴿حتي اگر براي فرد ديگري آن كار را انجام دهي﴾، در واقع داري براي خودت كار مي‌كني. بنابراين اگر كار خوب بكني، اثر خوبي آن كار به خودت بر مي‌گردد و اگر كار بد بكني، اثر بدي آن كار هم به خودت بر مي‌گردد.

     
  5. البته من جمله انگلیسی رو نفهمیدم چه معنی دقیقا میده ولی در توضیحات فرانسه خودم دقیقا منظورم جملاتی است که مرتضی گفت. من عذرخواهی میکنم بابت برداشت اشتباه از جمله سیمون
    :eek:
     
  6. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks, most helpful.

    Two translations:
    Whatever you do you do it to yourself. = هر کاری که انجام میدهی به خودت میکنی (برای نمونه، اگر بزنی خودت را میزنی)ا
    Whatever you do you do it for yourself. = هركاري كه تو انجام مي‌دهي، براي منافع خودت انجام میدهی و فقط به فكر خودت هستی
    Please note that I've altered the example slightly as it seems more appropriate because in هرچه كني به خود كني the second كني is میکنی, isn't it (not بکنی). Please let me know if this leads to any confusion and I'll readjust the translation.

    What is the meaning of همه here, please? Is it followed by kasre?
     
  7. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Could it be, "Whatever you do, it is your own doing even if all of it is good or bad".
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  8. searcher123

    searcher123 Senior Member

    My home ;-) /The Persian Gulf
    Farsi/Persian/فارسي
    Oh yes. Again a war between "to" and "for" :). Thank you so much for the clarification. Your explanation was excellent. All sorted now.

    It mean هر. In other word, گر همه نيك و بد كني mean اگر هر خوبي يا بدي كه بكني. This proverb is extracted of 3 Ayeh of Holey Quran:

    مَنْ عَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلِنَفْسِهِ وَمَنْ أَسَاء فَعَلَيْهَا و َمَا رَبُّكَ بِظَلَّامٍ لِّلْعَبِيدِ ﴿سوره‌ي فصلت آيه‌ي ٤٦﴾
    كسى كه عمل صالحى انجام دهد، سودش براى خود اوست‏؛ و هر كس بدى كند، به خويشتن بدى كرده است‏؛ و پروردگارت هرگز به بندگان ستم نمى‏كند

    مَنْ عَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلِنَفْسِهِ وَمَنْ أَسَاء فَعَلَيْهَا ثُمَّ إِلَى رَبِّكُمْ تُرْجَعُونَ ﴿سوره‌ي الجاثية آيه ١٥﴾
    هر كس كار شايسته‏اى بجا آورد، براى خود بجا آورده است‏؛ و كسى كه كار بد مى‏كند، به زيان خود اوست‏؛ سپس همه شما به سوى پروردگارتان بازگردانده مى‏شويد

    رَبَّنَا ظَلَمْنَا أَنفُسَنَا وَإِن لَّمْ تَغْفِرْ لَنَا وَتَرْحَمْنَا لَنَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ ﴿سوره اعراف آيه ٢٣﴾
    پروردگارا! ما به خويشتن ستم كرديم‏! و اگر ما را نبخشى و بر ما رحم نكنى‏، از زيانكاران خواهيم بود


    No, it isn't.
     
  9. searcher123

    searcher123 Senior Member

    My home ;-) /The Persian Gulf
    Farsi/Persian/فارسي
    What do you mean when you say "it is your own doing", please?
     
  10. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    هرچه كني به خود كني، گر همه نيك و بد كني

    I have taken the meaning of "ba-xud kunii" as "You do it your self". In other words, "This is your own doing/deed.

    Whether it is good or bad, whatever you do it is your own responsibility.

    Having given second thoughts to this, it appears that its meaning is as has been provided by other friends. That is to say, "
    Whether it is good or bad, whatever you do, you do it to yourself."

    Here is a very short story behind this proverb. What I have been able to understand, it seems to me that this is a correct translation of the line.

    http://100100.ir/proverb/proverbs.php?proverb=82&name=%D9%87%D8%B1%DA%86%D9%87%20%DA%A9%D9%86%DB%8C%20%D8%A8%D9%87%20%D8%AE%D9%88%D8%AF%20%DA%A9%D9%86%DB%8C%20%DA%AF%D8%B1%20%D9%87%D9%85%D9%87%20%D9%86%DB%8C%DA%A9%20%D9%88%20%D8%A8%D8%AF%20%DA%A9%D9%86%DB%8C

    The gist of it is this. If you do good, it is your own gain (it is for your own benefit) and if you do evil, it is your own loss .
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  11. searcher123

    searcher123 Senior Member

    My home ;-) /The Persian Gulf
    Farsi/Persian/فارسي
    Thank you so much because of your clarification.

    Well, your meaning and my meaning are the same, just our sentences are different :)
     
  12. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks for the excellent help.

    Just a thought: this is saying that there are two possibilities, isn't it? I.e. all bad or all good.

    Of course, life isn't like that, and whatever we do will bring some good and some bad (although we must hope that it will bring the best possible). So, can we take this as including by implication everything between 100% good and 100% bad even though it doesn't say so explicitly?
     
  13. searcher123

    searcher123 Senior Member

    My home ;-) /The Persian Gulf
    Farsi/Persian/فارسي
    The best translate for هر is "any type and amount of" (i.e. هر نوع و به هر ميزان) here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  14. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Oh, thank you very much - so in fact it is explicitly referring to the whole range, i.e. from totally good to totally bad (i.e. including everything in between the two extremes), isn't it? I think this is a very important point indeed, many thanks.

    PS How about explaining it like this: هر چه قدر خوب یا بد هم بکنید?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  15. searcher123

    searcher123 Senior Member

    My home ;-) /The Persian Gulf
    Farsi/Persian/فارسي
    Yes, it is. Albeit the meaning is so wider. In other words, not only it is referring to the whole range from totally good to totally bad, but also it is referring to the gray scales of good or bad too. For example, saving a person's life is a good work and being kind with other people is another good work too, but these two good work have not the same score. Surely saving a life is bigger than being kind. According with Holey Quran, any act, good or bad, will be calculated exactly by God, even if the weight of that act is equal with the weight of an atom. Also the retaliation of that act will be payed to the doer not only in the other world, but in the world too. We have many proverbs mentioning to this Islamic meaning. For example: تو نيكي مي‌كن و در دجله انداز، كه ايزد در بيابانت دهد باز

    I think we talked about this structure previously. This structure (that هم is very important at it) normally have a criticized meaning in modern Persian and is used when you want to show your irritation about a situation. For example:


    هر چه قدر خوب يا بد بكنيد هم، باز يه بلايي سرتون مياد
    هر چه قدر بهش محبت بكنيد هم، باز نيشش را بهتون مي‌زند
    حتّي اگه هر پنج انگشتتان را عسل كنيد و در دهانش بگذاريد هم، باز گازتون مي‌گيره

     
  16. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks, all clear now.

    Correction:
    According with Holey Quran > According to the Holy Quran
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  17. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Can we swap around ham and baaz, e.g.

    هر چه قدر خوب يا بد بكنيد، باز هم يه بلايي سرتون مياد
     
  18. searcher123

    searcher123 Senior Member

    My home ;-) /The Persian Gulf
    Farsi/Persian/فارسي
    Thank you so much. A truly important correction.

    Yes, you can. It is completely common in colloquial.
     
  19. trainer3000 Senior Member

    FARSI
    no,
    It means:
    Whatevever you will do, you will do it to yourself. wether good or evil.

    in persian, the imperative is just کن or بکن.When you add some seffix, you are departing from the imperative.Here, the verb is 'future conditional'. Persian wikipedia has a nice article on زمان حال.
    the present stem for کردن is کن
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  20. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Thank you so much for the excellent help and the valuable reference.

    I'd like to have a look at the relevant part of Persian Wiki in detail. So that I can find it immediately on the page, please could you give me the Persian for 'future conditional'?
     
  21. searcher123

    searcher123 Senior Member

    My home ;-) /The Persian Gulf
    Farsi/Persian/فارسي
    آينده شرطي
     
  22. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Much obliged, dear friend!
     
  23. searcher123

    searcher123 Senior Member

    My home ;-) /The Persian Gulf
    Farsi/Persian/فارسي
    You are welcome as always.
     
  24. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Sorry, I've not been able to find the page for some reason - please could you give me the URL?
     
  25. trainer3000 Senior Member

    FARSI
    Sorry to see this page late.
    in fa.wikipedia.org, you should look for
    حال(زمان)
    I said 'future conditional' just for ebglish translation.We use the present conditional for both present and future conditional, as far as I know.
    In persian grammar, 'conditional' translates to التزامی(again, as far as I know)
     
  26. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks, excellent.
     

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