Persian/Arabic/Turkish: Daily Life Terms

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Bienvenidos, May 20, 2006.

  1. Bienvenidos

    Bienvenidos Senior Member

    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    Let's do some linguistic analyzing :)

    Please excuse the lack of Arabic text; I'm still trying to figure out how to do it properly on my computer. :) So here's my attempted, accented Romanized Farsi:

    ú - oo as in food
    í - ee as in meet
    ao - ou as in shout

    WITHOUT ACCENTS:
    u - u as in under

    Farsi - Daily Life

    TIMES OF DAY
    Morning-- súb
    Afternon -- chosht
    Night - shao

    DAILY VERBS
    To wake up - khístun
    To go to sleep - khowshouldun (khow-should-un)
    To eat - khordun
    To get - giriftun
    To talk - gupzudun

    DAILY MEALS
    Breakfast - non-a-súb
    Lunch - non-a-chosht
    Dinner- non-a-shao

    COMMON DRINKS
    water - ao (this is the spoken Farsi, written it would be aab)
    milk - shír

    COMMON FOODS
    rice - birinj
    chicken - gúsht-a-murgh
    turkey - phílmurgh (turkey as in meat: gúsht-a-phílmurgh)
    lamb - guszfund (lamb as in meat: gúsht-a-guszfund)
    meat - gúsht

    COMMON DESSERTS
    candy - shírní
    cookie - culchuh

    Hope this is good enough for now. :)
    Bien


     
  2. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Interesting Bien :)
    Unfortunately, there are not many common words with Arabic


    Morning-- súb This is like the Arabic sub7صُبْح

    Dinner- non-a-shao a-sho reminded me of 3ashaa2 عشاء

    candy - shírní This reminds me of my name :D شيرين which is only used as a name (mainly for girls, but sometimes for boys too)

    Maybe other foreros would find more similarities I couldn't perceive :)
    Cherine شيرين
     
  3. Bienvenidos

    Bienvenidos Senior Member

    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    Yes :) Shirín (Cherine!) means sweet in Farsi. Is it the same in Arabic? :)

    Bien
     
  4. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    lol, unfortunately no. As I said, this word is only known as a person's name. I can eve assure you that many Shirín(s) don't know the meaning of their own name :)
    sweet or candy, in Arabic, is 7alwa حلوى
     
  5. Bienvenidos

    Bienvenidos Senior Member

    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    Wow! That's so interesting, Cherine! We came across a similarity in Farsi and Arabic just now!

    Alwa in Farsi is a sweet Afghan dish (kind of like oatmeal, but a lot sweeter) It's made using flour, sugar, and oil. It's a great alternative to regular breakfast! :)

    What a coincidence! :)

    I always learn something new from you Cherine!

    Bien
     
  6. la tierra Junior Member

    Turkish
    hey!
    I couldn't find so similarities between Turkish word and the word both of you wrote.
    hera they are some daily life terms in Turkish:

    morning- sabah
    afternoon-akşam
    night-gece

    DAILY VERBS
    To wake up - uyanmak
    To go to sleep-uyumaya gitmek
    To eat - yemek
    To talk - konuşmak

    DAILY MEALS
    Breakfast - kahvaltı
    Lunch - öğle yemeği
    Dinner- akşam yemeği

    COMMON DRINKS
    water - su
    milk - süt

    COMMON FOODS
    *rice -pirinç (birinj in Farsi)
    chicken - tavuk
    turkey -hindi
    lamb - kuzu eti
    meat - et

    COMMON DESSERTS
    candy - şeker
    cookie - kurabiye

    * how do you say "justice" in Arabic? Is there any similarity the word "hak" or "hukuk" meaning "justice" in Turkish?
     
  7. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    On the contrary, there are some : wait and see :)

    morning- sabah this is exactly used in Arabic صباح it's a variation of subH.
    chicken - tavuk there's a certain chicken dish in Egypt called tawúk.
    turkey -hindi :) here we call it dík ("dík" is rooster) rúmi, but many people also call it dindi

    COMMON DESSERTS
    candy - şeker it resembles the Arabic word for sugar : sukkar

    * how do you say "justice" in Arabic? Is there any similarity the word "hak" or "hukuk" meaning "justice" in Turkish?
    justice is 3adaala عدالة , hak (hukuk is the plural) is right (like rights versus obligations), the law school in Egypt is called kulleyat al-huquuq كلية الحقوق (literaly : faculty of rights)
     
  8. Bienvenidos

    Bienvenidos Senior Member

    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    As Cherine mentioned, sabah seems to be a variation of the Arabic subH and Farsi súb. The interesting thing is that in Farsi sabaah means tomorrow. Another intersting note: Cherine mentioned that sugar in Arabic is sukkar and it's similar to the Turkish word for candy (şeker). In Farsi, shukkur is diabetes, a disease relating to blood sugar problems and the lack of insulin production in the pancreas. Isn't that interesting how all three terms are similar and tie together in one way or another? :)'

    Bien
     
  9. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Interesting indeed :)
    By the way, diabetes is also sukkar in Arabic (at least in Egypt), I heard variations of it, mainly sukkary (which is derivated from sukkar).
     
  10. linguist786 Senior Member

    Blackburn, England
    English, Gujarati & Urdu
    Just to add, we use the same word in Urdu/Gujarati/Hindi too! (for the same meaning)
     
  11. Bienvenidos

    Bienvenidos Senior Member

    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    That's very interesting. I'm sure Urdu/Hindi share a lot of roots with the other Indo-Iranian languages. My mother can actually speak Urdu; it's a very interesting language. Thank you for sharing :)

    Bien
     
  12. Antivirus New Member

    Arabic -Egypt
    Hi all,
    Just to comment about "sabah", in other arabic dialects, the exact word sabah صباح is used to mean morning or tomorrow.

    I'm sure there are more similarities, and it is interesting to know about them.

    I have one question here, the farsi word "شيرين", is it feminine or masculine? Or is it for both? Although it is mostly used in arabic as a female name, I can't see a specific reason for that.

    Thanx :)
     
  13. Bienvenidos

    Bienvenidos Senior Member

    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    Hi there,

    My computer somehow isn't displaying that Farsi word in quotes (it comes up as ????), so the most I can tell you is that Farsi does not have a masculine/feminine system.

    Bien :D
     
  14. Antivirus New Member

    Arabic -Egypt
    hi Bien, and thanx for the fast reply,
    the word was (Cherine). As I understand it is an adjective, isn't it? In Arabic adjectives may have different forms for males and females, Isn't this the case in Farsi also?

    Regards,
     
  15. Bienvenidos

    Bienvenidos Senior Member

    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    :) Hey!

    Shírín (sweet) is an adjective. Farsi doesn't have a masculine/feminine system like Arabic or Spanish, so it's used with any noun (since all nouns are genderless).

    Nahn-a-shírín (sweet food)
    [Insert Name Here]-a-shírín (sweet [Person's name, as when saying someone is "sweet"]

    :D Let me know if you have any more questions. :D

    Bien
     
  16. MarcB Senior Member

    US English
    aunt

    Arabic
    خالَة, عَمَّة

    Urdu/Hindi ﻩﻠﺎﺨ,

    Turkish teyze; hala; yenge.

    Farsi ﻭﻤﻋ ﻥﺯ ‘ﻰﻴﺍﺩ ﻥﺯ ‘ﻩﻠﺎﺨﻩﻤﻋ
     
  17. Tisia Senior Member

    Finland
    Iran, Persian, Kurdish, English, Finnish
    Hello Bien. Here is my Persian version contribution to tell about the differences:

    English-Persian
    Farsi - Daily Life


    TIMES OF DAY
    Morning- súbh
    Afternoon - asr
    Night - shab


    DAILY VERBS
    To wake up - bidar shodan
    To go to sleep - khabidan
    To eat - khordan
    To get - gereftan/ avardan
    To talk - harf zadan

    DAILY MEALS
    Breakfast - sobhaneh
    Lunch - nahar
    Dinner- sham

    COMMON DRINKS
    water - ab
    milk - shír

    COMMON FOODS
    rice - berenj
    chicken - (gushte)morgh
    turkey - (gushte)buqlamun
    lamb - (gushte)gusfand
    meat - gúsht


    COMMON DESSERTS
    candy - shírní OR abe nabat
    cookie - kolucheh

    Regárds
    Tisia
     
  18. Bienvenidos

    Bienvenidos Senior Member

    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    Hi Tisia :)

    We also say "bídar shodan" :) As far as the other minor differences, I think it's caused by one factor: Persian in Afghanistan, when written (i.e. as in a formal letter), is identical to that of Iran, but when spoken, it's a little different. :)

    Bien
     
  19. Tisia Senior Member

    Finland
    Iran, Persian, Kurdish, English, Finnish
    ....Yes I know that:) I can easily understand my Afghan friends here.:)

    Tisia
     
  20. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Really fascinating guys! In Hindi:
    TIMES OF DAY
    Morning-- subah, saver
    Afternon -- dopahr
    Night - shaam, raat

    Your word for "to get" is what we use for "arrested." /giraftaar honaa/ means to be arrested.

    We use two words for "meat." /gosht/ and /maas/ with the former being Urdu and the latter being Hindi. Chicken is /murGaa/ in Hindi/Urdu. What is duck for you guys? I have heard that Arabic actually got the word for Duck from Sanskrit...but Im not sure. In Hindi, it is /batakh/.

    Shirni is a candy hear too. And Halwa is identical for us....and a GREAT BREAKFAST substitute I might add! For justice, we'd say /insaafii/ or /nyaai/. The word /haq/ means "one's right" and "haqiiqat" is reality. /haqiiqii/ is real. The Arabic word provided by Cherine (3adaala) is the same in Hindi/Urdu, but the meaning is different. We spell it /3adaalat/ ( I notice that most Arabic words in Urdu have a "t" at the end of them in Urdu...perhaps a phonetic change that occured) and the meaning is "court."

    For Sugar, we say /chiinii/(H/U), /shakkar/(H/U), and /khandh/ (P).
     
  21. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Oh, and the Farsi word for water, /aab/ is present in the word /pa.njaab/ the state where I'm from, with /pa.nj/ meaning 5 and /aab/ meaning water. So Panjab is the land of the 5 rivers, but the words use for water in H/U are paanii or jal (less frequent).
     
  22. Tisia Senior Member

    Finland
    Iran, Persian, Kurdish, English, Finnish
    right:)

    Tisia
     
  23. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Fascinating indeed !
    I'll add the Arabic words in blue.
    Sorry if I've been long, but this is getting even more interesting :thumbsup:
     
  24. Honour Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Türkçe, Türkiye
    Bold ones are turkish :)
    we used to say "ab" and sometimes "ma" to water, it is now called "su".


    Edit: additions
     
  25. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    We say vaajib also, but I think it means "appropriate" but Im not too sure. I did use the word today with my mother though...
     
  26. Antivirus New Member

    Arabic -Egypt
    Duck in Arabic is 'batt' or 'battah' (بط, بطة), so yeah, it sounds similar to the Hindi word "batakh", at least for the first part of the word. But how do you pronounce the second part? Is it a 'k' followed by an 'h', ba-ta-k-h, or is it a kha'?

    :)
     
  27. linguist786 Senior Member

    Blackburn, England
    English, Gujarati & Urdu
    What an interesting thread! Shame I didn't notice it before :(
    This is my contribution for the Gujarati equivalents.

    The ones in green are the "strict" words in Gujarati (suddhar Gujarati/standard Gujarati) and the blue ones are the ones I use at home (Bharuchi Gujarati). Some of them are just the same. Please note I use "~" to indicate a nasalised sound. :)

    TIMES OF DAY
    Morning - savaaray (સવારે) (havaaray)
    Afternon - baporay (બપોરે) (-same-)
    Evening -
    saa~jay (સાંજે) (ho~jay)
    Night - raatray (રાત્રે) (raatay)

    DAILY VERBS
    To wake up - uthwu (ઉઠવું) (-same-)
    To go to sleep - suy jawu (સુઈ જવું) (huy jawu)
    To eat - khaavu (ખાવું) (-same-)
    To get - léwu (લેવું) (-same-)
    To talk - bolwu (બોલવું)(-same-)

    DAILY MEALS
    Breakfast - naasto (નાસ્તો) (-same-)
    Lunch - No proper word for it. I guess we just say: bapor nu khaaavaa (બપોર નુ ખાવા) (-same-)
    Dinner - Again, no proper word. I guess we just say: saa~j nu khaavaa (સાંજ નુ ખાવા) (ho~j nu khaavaa)


    COMMON DRINKS
    water - paa~i (પાણી) (paani)
    milk - doodh (દૂધ) (-same-)

    COMMON FOODS
    rice - chaawal (ચાવલ) (-same-)
    chicken - marghi (મરઘી) (-same-)
    turkey - not sure.. will try and find out later!
    lamb - gosht (ગોશ્ત) (which can also mean "meat" in general). If we want to emphasise that it's lamb (and not any other meat) we use "bakri no gosht" (બકરી નો ગોશ્ત) to differentiate.

    meat - gosht (ગોશ્ત) (gos)

    COMMON DESSERTS
    candy - no word for this! (we borrow the english word "sweets" and turn it into a Gujarat plural ending :p (sweeto)
    cookie - god knows! (definitely no word for this!)


     
  28. Bienvenidos

    Bienvenidos Senior Member

    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    We use "haqiiqat" in Farsi as "reality" as well. The common term for regular sugar is usually búrah, and shakkur is diabetes.

    Bien
     
  29. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Isn't it pronounced differently though in Farsi? I think the "qaaf" letter is pronounced like a "ghain" right?
     
  30. lb_tulip New Member

    persian(Iran)
    Hi
    I'm Iranian (a farsi speaker) but some of your writings are not correct
    water: ab
    morning:sobh
    night:shab
    day:rooz
    breakfast:sobhane
    lunch:nahar
    dinner:sham
     
  31. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    The Urdu is correct. The Hindi is not. The word for maternal aunt (mother's sister more specifically) is /mausii/ (मौसी)and her husband is a /maaser/ (मासर). This is one of those cases where a very common term is different between the languages, however speakers of either language would understand the other term.
     
  32. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Ah, Cherine, I realized I mispelled something. For justice, I should of written /insaaf/ and not /insaafii/. I will go back and edit my original post.

    EDIT: I cannot edit it anymore...oh well!
     
  33. Bienvenidos

    Bienvenidos Senior Member

    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    :) I'm a native Farsi speaker to....but from Afghanistan. :) There are some little vocab changes....I've explained this in other posts before: Persian in Afghanistan is spoken differently than it is in Iran, but both dialects are written the same way. :)

    Great to have another Farsi speaker!
    Bien
    Bien
     
  34. Chazzwozzer

    Chazzwozzer Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish
    We have Turkish equivalents to almost every Arabic and Persian words in Turkish. In a good Turkish dictionary, you will see those loan-words and same meaning Turkish words coexist.

    I really don't understand why you also analyze Turkish along with Arabic and Persian. Please can anybody tell me?

    1- It's true that Persian and Arabic once influenced Turkish at Ottoman times that many years ago. I'm sure Arabic and Persian influenced each other, as well, but never thought Turkish also influenced them just like they did.

    2-
    Since the Republic, Turkish has almost never borrowed any words from neither Arabic nor Persian. Rather, there has been a big number of falling of Arabic and Persian words in Turkish, probably as a result of nationalist movement.

    3- Did you know that according to official statics of Turkish Language Association, there are 1374 loan-words from Persian and 6463 from Arabic, which most of them are not used nowadays and probably you would never face with half of those in your life since pure Turkish words are replacing them, and the thing is there are 4974 French words in Turkish! Also, according to TDK, we have 538 words from English, the words like cool which are increasingly used in daily life are not included. 632 from Italian, 399 from Greek, 147 from Latin and so on...

    I hope you understand what I mean now. Before the republic, there was a big influence of Arabic and Persian on Turkish. After the republic and in the time being, especially French and English have been influencing Turkish much and it's still going on.
     
  35. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    It's not really "influences" that we're talking about, but just "similarities". There are words common between these three languages, that we don't even know who borrowed them from whom, specially with the lack of etymological dictionaries, especially in Arabic.

    I find it interesting and amusing to learn that some of the words we use in different fields of life (daily terms, technical terms) are actually not Arabic, or -for the Arabic ones- that they are used in other countries.

    If Turkey is replacing the non-Turkish words with "pure" Turkish ones, that's fine with me :) Maybe you'd like to know that some of the Turkish words that were used in Egypt are gradually falling out of use too (like agzakhana -->Saydaleyya = pharmacy, for example). But it's not a race for who's going to purify their language first. Every language in the world -as much as I know, and with the exceptions maybe of the languages of isolated peoples(?)- have borrowings from other languages.
     
  36. Chazzwozzer

    Chazzwozzer Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish
    Aren't the influences only way to have similarities among unrelated languages, anyway?

    I have already given the official number of loan-words from Arabic in Turkish.

    LOAN-WORDS FROM TURKISH IN:


    Arabic:
    According to a research held by Algerian scientist Mohammed ben Cheneb in 1922, Algerian Arabic has 634 loan-words from Turkish. He also classified the numbers of words such as 72 of those words are martial, 31 of those words are nautical and so on.

    According to another research held by Ahmet Ateş, Arabic has 539 loan-words about literature from Turkish.

    Researcher Hüseyin Ali Mahfuz listed 500 loan-words from Turkish in Arabic spoken in Baghdat.

    German researcher Erich Prokosch reported that, according to his research Sudanese Arabic had borrowed 259 loan-words from Turkish.

    In the latest research by Bedrettin Aytaç, 941 loan-words from Turkish in every dialects of Arabic are finally listed and classified.

    Persian:

    Fuad Köprülü stated that only 280 words in Persian are actually from Turkish.

    German Gerhard Doerfer claims that 80% of the words in Persian are actually from Arabic. F. K. Timurtaş agrees and points out that there are more loan-words from Arabic than Persian words in Persian.

    WHAT ABOUT OTHER LANGUAGES?
    Since we're talking about Arabic, Persian and Turkish here, I'll keep these statics simple.

    Albanian has 5.00 - 10.000 loan-words from Turkish.
    Greek has 5.000 - 7.000 loan-words from Turkish.


    Agzakhana? That doesn't even look like Turkish. Maybe you mean eczane which is not Turkish. ecza=Arabic hane=Persian.

    To be honest: even if it was a race, Turkish would be the last. Soon a loan-word falls into disuse, another loan-word comes into being. In the early years of TDK wanted to replace the Arabic word şeref with pure Turkish word. However, it didn't really happen that way. Laten on, onur(French: honneur) came up so these two words still co-exist.

    That is right. That's why I was wondering why this tread was not only about Persian and Arabic. Why Turkish, too? These two languages have much in common and their borrowings are still happening but Turkish has not been borrowing any words from these two and nowadays is trying to purify the language.
     
  37. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    The language Urdu got its name from Turkish! Go figure!
     
  38. Chazzwozzer

    Chazzwozzer Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish
    Hungary got its name from Turkish, as well. (onogur-alliance of the ten tribes)

    About, Urdū, yes it's derived from ordu which means army. I really don't think it is surprising because it's a well-known fact that Urdu is a language that developed under many languages including Turkish.
     
  39. Hello everyone,

    I just finished a most exceptional book called "The Kite Runner", by Khaled Husseini, about the life of a boy growing up in Afghanistan before and during the Russian invasion, and how he returned years after when the Taliban had taken power. Probably the greatest book I've read in years, in any case...

    But I fund it interesting that there were many words in Afghan Persian that resemble Turkish - among them:

    Tashakour - Tessekür - Thanks
    Lötfen - Lütfen - Please
    Khâla - Hala - Aunt
    Zaman (first name in AP) - Zaman - Time

    I won't theorize about any causal reltaionships here, but I was surprised by "tashakour" and "lötfen". If I remember others, and there were others, I will note them here....
     
  40. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Hello Badgrammar,
    These words are all from Arabic origin :

    Tashakour - Tessekür - Thanks - it comes from the Arabic word شكر
    Lötfen - Lütfen - Please لطفـًا there's another thread about this word. I said there that this word is not commonly used in Arabic daily usage, but it would be understood anyway. We have other alternatives, like "faDlan" فضلاً
    Khâla - Hala - Aunt خالة (feminine of uncle خال khál)
    - By the way khaala and khaal are the maternal aunt and uncle, the paternal ones are 3amm - 3amma عم - عمة
    Zaman (first name in AP) - Zaman - Time زمان - زمن
     
  41. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Funny thing is that nearly all the words used in that book at used in Panjabi too! It was very nice!
     
  42. That is interesting! And I also noticed the close similarity between Afghan foods and foods you eat in India - quarma and naan and many other dishes that sound very familiar to fans of Indian fare...

    I learned so much with that book, I had little knowledge of Afghanistan before!
     
  43. Bienvenidos

    Bienvenidos Senior Member

    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    Exactly. Although I wouldn't say Urdu/Hindi and Farsi are extremely similar, they do have shared meals/words/influences.

    :)

    It's nice to see that people are learning more about Afghanistan and the Afghan people. In recent years, Afghanistan has been portrayed as a country filled with terrorists: this is certainly not true. The Afghan people themselves hated the Taliban. They wanted to get rid of them. The Taliban invaded Afghanistan, and ruined the country's perfectly stable government (the soviets did the same when invading Afghanistan in the 1980s). People are shocked to learn that Afghanistan used to have huge libraries, and television stations: women used to be able to attend school: Western clothes and fashion styles were present in Afghanistan, up until the time that the Taliban invaded.
    Learning the Afghan dialect of Persian is really enjoyable: every word has a connection to the history of Afghanistan, and the Aryan empire. As I've said before, the Eastern Persian dialect has a different spoken conjugation than the Western Persian dialect, and some Eastern Persian words are not the same in Western Persian.

    Let me know if you need any help with your Persian/Farsi studies. :)
    :)

    :)
     
  44. Spectre scolaire Senior Member

    Moving around, p.t. Turkey
    Maltese and Russian
    Since you make reference to various researchers, could we have a couple of references here as well?:thumbsup:


    These statistics are difficult to assess. Most of the Arabic loanwords in Turkish have come through Persian. Most people are not even aware of this fact, and a word which, for all intents and purposes, is Arabic, is not eo ipso an Arabic loanword. An apparently flagrant example of this is badire.


    Correction: Turk. badire is somehow less uncommon than I first thought of. Its meaning in Turk., “misfortune, disaster”, is a far cry from its Arabic original – a fact which puzzled the native Arabic speaker elroy.

    If the semantic content of an Arabic word has changed that radically, would it still be considered an Arabic loanword in Turkish? And then, what about all those words which do not exhibit any changes worth mentioning whether morphologically or semantically? This is not an easy question for which reason it might be safe to consider only those words of (ultimately) Arabic origin in Turkish as Persian unless special indications prove otherwise. And yet, most people would not be inclined to follow such a strict observance.

    The Turkish terms are:

    Paternal aunt: hala – corresponding to Arab. خالة. The masc. form does not exist in Turk., amca being its replacement. In Turk., Arab. خال would be homonymous with حال, cf. hal, “state, situation, often a bad situation, i.e. trouble” – not an appropriate word to designate a paternal aunt...
    Paternal uncle: amca – see commentary below!​

    Maternal aunt: teyze – a word of Turk. origin. ​

    Maternal uncle: dayı – a word of Turk. origin.
    Turk. amca is in fact Arab. عم+ a Turk. suffix –cE (subject to vowel harmony). The reason why this word had to be “modified”, is to avoid the homonym am, “female genital organ”, generally considered to be (extremely) vulgar:eek:. Ottoman dictionaries will probably register the word am, “paternal uncle”, but it is never being used (today) in this sense. The corresponding Arab. fem. form عمة is non-existent in Turkish, possibly – again! - because of homonym restrictions.


    I wonder when you said âb for “water” in Turkish – probably never. Here I exclude the convenient lexical “filling” in crossword puzzles! – the probable reason why so many Turks would know this word in the first place. The word ‘âb’ was only used in Ottoman times to make a great number of Persian izafets, all of them with âb as the first element. Today, hardly any of these compound nouns are in current use – âbıhayat, “aqua vitae, liquor”, being a notable exception – let alone âb’ on its own.

    Ottoman Turkish ma in the sense of water” would belong to the same category of artificial words on its own (with the same crossword caveat as above), and as obsolete words in (equally) obsolete Persian izafet constructions. But, there is an interesting exception: ma provided with the nisbe form – mavi – is the common Turk. word today to designate the colour blue.;)
     
  45. Alijsh Senior Member

    Tehran
    Persian - Iran
    zamân is not an Arabic loanword. We have it even in Pahlavi (middle Persian).
     
  46. Alijsh Senior Member

    Tehran
    Persian - Iran
    80%? Can this Gerhard prove this claim?

    "there are more loan-words from Arabic than Persian words in Persian" Then how come Persian can be written without any Arabic word? We have pure writers.
     
  47. Alijsh Senior Member

    Tehran
    Persian - Iran
    I have heard (from an Arabic resource) that sabâh is from Persian pagâh. I haven't been convinced though. Do you know about its etymology?
     
  48. Frank06

    Frank06 Senior Member

    Nederlands / Dutch (Belgium)
    Salam,
    I wonder what you mean by "pure writers" (not on dopage as the cyclists in the Tour de France?)
    Regardless the percentage (so far I read about percentages between 40% and 60%, 80% is new to me, but it depends on how you count, I think), would it be possible for you to write a longer text in Persian which comes close to daily usage (be it written or spoken) without using Arabic (or other loan) words and without sounding very artifical.

    Motshakeram, Tashakor, Mersi ;-)

    Frank
     
  49. Alijsh Senior Member

    Tehran
    Persian - Iran
    Do you have g in Arabic? I didn't know. I think it's ajz-khâna. It might have been once in Persian but now we say dâruxâna/e; dâru: drug (it isn't an English loanowrd), xâna/e: house (drug-house; ketâbxâna/e: library).
     
  50. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    In Egyptian Arabic, yes we have a "g" sound. Note that I was talking about a word used in Egypt.

    On a side note, I see you're taking this subject too sensitively. Loan words are universal. There are more of linguistic exchange: there are Arabic words in many languages, just as Arabic has many words from other languages. I agree that 80% is a somewhat excessive, but who cares about numbers.
    Personally, it fascinates me to see and learn the similarities between languages, and I don't take it as a matter of pride to prove the "purity" of a language. In fact, I think that the more "pure" a language is, the more it means it is/was an isolated one.
    I prefer sociability :D
     

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