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Persian: "baham zanad" - meaning

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by rc2, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. rc2 Junior Member

    US
    India - Telugu
    I have some questions regarding the couplet below:

    گر بادِ فتنه هر دو جهان را به هم زند
    ما و چراغِ چشم و رهِ انتظار دوست

    [حافظ]


    gar baad-i fitnah har do.jahaan raa baham zanad
    maa -o- charaaGh-e chashm -o- rah-i intizaar-i-doost

    [Hafez - Ghazal 60]




    ---
    1) What is the function of "har" in the "har do jahaan" in line 1? I know that "har" means "each/every" etc. But if "do.jahaan" is a combined entity ( for the two worlds, material and extra-material), why is "har" needed here grammatically speaking?

    2) How would one read "baham zanad?" Is it literally "hits together?"

    3) What is the grammatical way of joining line 1 and line 2 in the couplet? Poetically, of course, I do understand that certain liberties are taken with implied or unstated words, and I see that there is something missing grammatically here in this couplet as well. Can I request a textual paraphrase in Persian of the verse with full grammar, as one would write it in "nasr" rather than "bayt" form? An English translation of the verse would also be much appreciated.

    I hope my questions make sense.

    Thanks in advance.
    RC
     
  2. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Firstly, let us write the couplet in the Classical manner..

    gar baad-i-fitnah har do jahaaN raa ba-ham zanad
    maa-o-charaaGh-i-chashm-o-rah-i-intizaar-i-dost

    agar fitne kii havaa donoN jahaanoN ko ek duusre se Takraa (bhii) de,(phir bhii) maiN (huuN gaa), aur merii aaNkh kaa charaagh (ho gaa) aur dost ke intizaar kaa raastah (ho gaa)

    (Even) if the wind of strife causes both the worlds to be at odds with one another (i.e. a disturbance between the two takes place), there will be I, with his eyes as a lamp, waiting for his beloved on the (dark) road!

    I think all your three questions should have been covered.
     
  3. rc2 Junior Member

    US
    India - Telugu
    QP saahib, Thanks for your response. I get the gist of the couplet -- but still have some issues (call me naive).

    a) what the function of "har" in the first line? Leaving aside the the metrical need for a moment, does it serve any other grammatical purpose?

    b) So "ba.ham" is to be read as "hit against each other" here then? This is a new metaphor to me - the two worlds are so distinctly apart in general that it did not even occur to me that the "twain shall meet."

    c) Could you and/or members of this forum paraphrase the verse in "Persian nasr" as well, and use as much filling in the gaps as needed to ensure fully corrrect/complete grammar? That would be most helpful.

    d) The uneasiness of the 2nd line I have is that there is just the subject (3 of them) with conjunctions, no verb, no object etc. Given the time, it was perhaps understood -- I wonder if the current day readers/writers would use/accept it like so now. Persian poetry afficianados/writers, please comment.

    Thanks again for your response.
    RC
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  4. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    do jahaan raa = do jahaanoN ko/The two worlds (accusative)

    har do jahaan raa = donoN jahaanoN ko/ Both the worlds (accusative)

    If I still have n't answered this part of your question, I must be missing something and might perhaps have better luck in Telugu!:)
     
  5. rc2 Junior Member

    US
    India - Telugu
    I see what you mean now. Thanks.
     
  6. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    tuu aur aaraa'ish-i-xam-i-kaakul
    maiN aur andeshah-haa-i-duur-daraaz

    Ghalib
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  7. rc2 Junior Member

    US
    India - Telugu
    Yes, yes, QP-saahib, got that -- the A:B pattern here is much easier to swallow though.. The verse by Hafez has the following syntax though:

    Even if the calamitous wind dashes the two worlds together,
    Me, and the light of my eye, and the road of waiting of the Beloved.

    Not quite the same, in my mind -- poetically speaking. Thanks for trying.. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  8. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ I am surprised, RC Jii, that you did n't notice that my quotation's second line was "xaarij az vazn"! Could you please amend the quote in your reply. Thanks.
     
  9. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    RC SaaHib, ''har do'' is a very basic occurence in the Persian language, meaning ''both'' as QP SaaHib has meticulously and patiently explained.

    An excerpt from a grammar book:

    ''The numbers are indefinite as they stand. They can be made definite by adding an adjective [...] or a definite distributive such as ''har''

    ھر سھ افسر تقصیر دارند All the three officers are to blame.
    ھر دو دانشجو امتحان دادند Both students took an examination.

    As a matter of fact, this is not foreign to Urdu, by the way and you may wish to consult this entry in Platts:

    har-do, or har-du, adj. Both


     
  10. rc2 Junior Member

    US
    India - Telugu
    QP-saahib, if you were referring solely to the -o- between "door" and "daraaz," that actually does NOT make the line Khaarij az behr/vazn. Yet, I removed the -o- from my reply as it is the correct form without it :)
     
  11. rc2 Junior Member

    US
    India - Telugu
    Thank you marrish -saahib. You're right, "har do" exists in Urdu too -- but I don't run across it often enough either - in speech or poetry.
     
  12. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Here is an example, RC Jii.

    nizaam-i-har do 3aalam aaj hai is dil ke qabzah meN
    jise kal tak lahuu kii buuNd bhii kahte the mushkil se

    Aziz Lakhnavii
     
  13. rc2 Junior Member

    US
    India - Telugu
    Wonderful, thanks.. [wish ALUP was still running strong too, brings back memories .. heh.]
     

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