Persian jelow (before) vs. English below

Discussion in 'Etymology, History of languages and Linguistics (EHL)' started by Daffodil100, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. Daffodil100

    Daffodil100 Senior Member

    Chinese
    Hello,

    jelow means before in Persian.

    I found the etymology for below from Online Etymology Dictionary as below:

    Are jelow and below relevant?

    And how old is jelow if you possibly know?


    Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  2. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    You mean maybe "Are jelow and below cognates?" (or related words). Relevant is not word that makes sense here.

    No, I don't think so. Why should they be? There are thousands of word that resemble one another, and they are mostly not related (like yellow and jelow, or Chinese jin and English gin). Related words usually don't resemble each other very much.
     
  3. Daffodil100

    Daffodil100 Senior Member

    Chinese
    Thank you for your response. I am afraid there's no existence of analogy between Chinese vs. English and Persian vs. English. Chinese doesn't belong Indo-European languages.


    Persian belongs to Indo-European languages family. In Persian, there are many load words from Latin, French and English or they are cognate, etc, i.e. Father, Mother, months, etc.

    I wonder about whether or not there's any connection between the etymology of the two words.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  4. Treaty Senior Member

    Australia
    Persian
    These words are not even semantically similar. jelow means "in front of" or "before (position)", while below means "beneath" or "under".

    In addition Persian dictionaries state that jelow is a Turkish or Mongolian loanword (I have no idea about this claim though seems plausible as it is a military/horsemanship word).

    No, below doesn't connote "before", the etymology dictionary gives an example how the prefix "be" is used for making adverbs as in "be+fore" that influenced making of "be+low".
     
  5. Daffodil100

    Daffodil100 Senior Member

    Chinese
    Thank you, Treaty.
     
  6. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    Yes, Persian is an IE language, like English, but their relationship is distant, and you will find very few cognates in those languages that resemble each other. You can expect that most of them will be family relation words, like father/pedar (some transcript this word as pachar). Not even English and Persian numerals resemble each other enough to make them recognizable (even the numeral three is seh in Persian). There are probably not more than twelve altogether.
    You will find lists of English and Persian cognates if you google them, but beware, many of them are false cognates (like bad/bad).

    You will find more Persian and Chinese loanwords in English than Persian recognizable cognates.
     
  7. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    who are these "some"?

    twelve what?
     
  8. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    I met once an Iranian that did. I don't remember his name now.

    Easily recognizable English/Persian cognates (like pedar/father).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2013
  9. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    He was pulling your leg.

    It depends on how good you are at recognizing them. I would say there are about a thousand.
     
  10. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    Why should he? Maybe it was his dialect.

    [/QUOTE] It depends on how good you are at recognizing them. I would say there are about a thousand.[/QUOTE]
    Give me a list of 20.
    By the way, many people will even not guess that "pedar" means "father".
     
  11. Treaty Senior Member

    Australia
    Persian
    It may be a dialect but not in ordinary sense. There are languages (pidgin, register or whatever they're called?) used among younger generations to imitate situations like "spoiled", "addict", "cutie", and among them, with bizarre pronunciation changes (e.g. doxtar > doxmal, or pedar > pejar). This case can be one of them, used as a gag by that Iranian pretending to be serious.

    I've heard the pronunciation of "pedar" in many Persian dialects and Persid languages. Their difference is mainly in the vowels (except for a few like Mazani or Luri that totally leave out "d"). It is unlikely that such a pronunciation exists in a "Persian" dialect.
     
  12. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    Waht is the quality of "d" in pedar? Is it dental, or alveolar? If it was dental, and with slight devoicing it could be mistaken for a "ch" sound.
     
  13. Triginta Septem Junior Member

    Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
    English - America
    I believe it would be alveolar, but it's still an easy thing to hear wrong. It's also technically a closer (as in, physically closer) sound to "ch" than the dental.
     

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