Persian: old platter-inscription

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Shantopia, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. Shantopia New Member

    What does it say??


  2. I think it's not persian (but arabic). can you please add the link of this site ?
  3. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    A larger, or clearer, photograph might help. The one thing that is clear in the date 1161 (AD 1748).
  4. darush Senior Member

    I agree with fdb, a larger and clearer(without direc reflections) is needed.
    I am not sure, perhaps ظرفخانه in top line and صاحب رزق in second, among two other words.
  5. AmirMomtaz New Member

    sorry but it's not readable !
    seems to be for about 330 years ago! should be valuable!
  6. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I am almost 100% certain that this image has been exhibited on the forum before and I am fairly certain that it was "decoded" by one of our Persian speaking friends.
  7. Treaty Senior Member

    Actually it was by the same person. I'm sorry that no one has still decoded it completely. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to read it because 1) we are not familiar with terminology of plate-makers. 2) it can be a proper name of its maker/user which is not common nowadays in Iran (if it is from Iran or Persian). So that's why there are not many responses for it.

    The decoding was not complete. Only one part (صاحب) is sure, for me. The last word (خیجان or روخیجان) doesn't make sense at all. Anyway, still if there was a photo without light reflections of the upper letters it would've been really helpful.
  8. Treaty Senior Member

    I know this is stupid but I can read this:

    طومانجان ولد صاحب روحیجان 1161
    tuman-jan, son of sahib ruhi-jan 1161 (1748 AD)

    Tuman (ten thousand?) is a Turko-Mongolian name like Tuman-bay the last Mamluk king. However, I'm not sure if jan as a suffix is used in Turkish or not.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
  9. darush Senior Member

    صاحب رزق (Սահէբ ռէզղ), is what I see at the beginning of the second line.

    صاحب رزق : One of God's names, consisting of saheb(owner, master) and rezq(food, people's predeterminde food/daily bread)

    saheb rezq: God, who determines and gives people's rezq
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
  10. Treaty Senior Member

    At first I'd thought this reading is correct. The ق is similar to the letter near the end of the 1st line (what I say و) while the latter does not have any dots above itself (so the second one is not ق). In addition, the dots of the suggested ق seemed to attach to the curve after طlike letter above. This makes me think it's not a part of the 2nd line but the 1st.

    In my reading also the letter after ط is not clear as what I understand as circle of و is like a dot (as you once said its the dot of ز in the 2nd line). Anyway it can be طزمان (tozman) another Turkish name. Another problem of my reading is the ن in my suggested جان in 1st line. It looks like ف more.
  11. darush Senior Member


    سلام، بله به احتمال زیاد "رزق" درست نیست. چیزی که بنظر من "ر" می آمد باید ادامه یک خط باشه که زیر تاریخ کشیده شده.حتی بنظر میاد "ولد" و کلمه پیش از آن هم به همدیگه وصل باشند. با اینحال برداشت شما باید درست باشه
  12. Treaty Senior Member

    My guess can only be correct if the craftsman had a very strong Sufi (or a similar Shia' sect) background. Words like sahib, jan and ruhi are not usual Arabic and Turkish names. I also posted about name tzman in Turkish forum, but it wasn't recognised as a Turkish name at all. The د (d) in ولد (veled = son) is not also a normal "d".
    It is not definitely Persian, but has Persian influence. I can say it is either from Syria-Turkey (where Alevis and Sufis are) or Pakistan-India (where sahib and jan are popular). I suggest this should also be posted into Arabic forum, waiting for Syrian-Lebanese responses.

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