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Persian/Urdu: tashreef تشريف

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by quetion, Apr 28, 2009.

  1. quetion New Member

    English
    I was looking for the literal meaning and etymology for the word "tashreef"
     
  2. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    I believe it means "presence" and it comes from Arabic.
     
  3. Alijsh Senior Member

    Tehran
    Persian - Iran
    "honoring", I think. In Persian, we have some idiomatic verbs with it.
     
  4. lcfatima Senior Member

    In a teapot
    English USA
    It comes from sh/r/f which is connected to the meaning of nobleness, like sharaafat and shareef.
     
  5. Illuminatus Senior Member

    Mumbai, India
    India, Hindi, English, Marathi
    Does musharraf have the same root?
     
  6. Alijsh Senior Member

    Tehran
    Persian - Iran
    Yes. It means "honored".
     
  7. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    It comes from the root ش \ ر \ ف, (as Fatima says) and it is Arabic (PG) and it means <honouring> (Alijsh). Also means <exalting / your honour etc.>.

    To be precise, <تشریف tashreef tashriif> is the verbal noun of < شَرَّفَ sharrafa = to honour>, from the root verb <شَرَفَ sharafa>.

    In Urdu we use it as, for example: <آپ) تشریف لایے) (aap) tashriif lāiyye> = please do come.

    The Urdu construction is virtually the same as the Persian <tashriif be
    āiid>. In fact we borrowed it from Farsi - and you can blame the likes of yours truly's ancestors for this.

    ... and PG, I think you might be thinking of <حَضرَت Hazrat = presence / dignity / eminence / holiness / highness
    >, also used as an honorific title.
     
  8. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    That was it! Thank you.
     
  9. Alijsh Senior Member

    Tehran
    Persian - Iran
    Do you have both ?:

    taŝrif bordan (تشریف بردن) = polite form of «raftan» (to go, to leave)
    taŝrif âvardan (تشریف آوردن) = polite form of «âmadan» (to come)
     
  10. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Yes we do!

    taŝrif bordan تشریف بردن
    تشریف لے جانا taŝriif le jānā

    taŝrif âvardan تشریف آوردن
    تشریف لانا taŝriif lānā


    So,
    < تشریف لے جایے taŝriif le jāiyye > = please (do) go! ... etc.
     
  11. Illuminatus Senior Member

    Mumbai, India
    India, Hindi, English, Marathi
    Tashreef rakhiye and tashreef laaiye are very common in India
     
  12. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Yep! Both compeletly idiomatic and used with the following difference:

    When someone is say at the door and you want him / her to come in you say the second. But if he / she is already in and you want him / her to sit down, you say the first.
     
  13. Illuminatus Senior Member

    Mumbai, India
    India, Hindi, English, Marathi
    Many a stand-up comedian have likened Tashreef with the backside and created jokes!
     
  14. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Yes I know some of those. But other, more "polite", forms of jokes / sarcasms use expressions like:

    taŝriif kā tokrā lānā! = to bring one's honourable basket! - in a literal translation, of course. Means that you really do not respect or honour that person.
     
  15. Sheikh_14 Senior Member

    English- United Kingdom, Urdu, Punjabi
    Not necessarily when one is already in the room tashriif lii jiye is commonly used to denote please do sit down hence the usage really depends on the context rather than mechanical rules. On the other hand, aap ke tashriif/ aap ka yahaan tashriif laane ka shukria would be a means to thank someone for coming. Thus here what you have put down becomes entirely relevent. However, even than you can be thanking someone for taking a seat in your humble abode etc. Nevertheless, tashriif rakhna is unambiguously used for taking a seat.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
  16. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Never heard about that.
     
  17. Sheikh_14 Senior Member

    English- United Kingdom, Urdu, Punjabi
    Used quite commonly- in place of please have a seat.
     
  18. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    That's new to me - perhaps it's not so common after all. To offer someone to have a seat the common way with the word tashriif is tashriif rakhiye. Perhaps I can't understand your notation correctly or I am missing out something, but if not I would advise strongly against it.

    tashriif, as Fayalsoof SaaHib stated years ago means "that what is honoured, exalted" thence "your exalted presence, your honour". Maybe it hasn't been explained plainly till day, but it means respectively:

    tashriif laanaa: "to bring your exalted presence" = to visit, to come, to come in.
    tashriif-aawarii farmaanaa: "to honour with having brought your exalted presence", as above but more ornate.
    tashriif le jaanaa: "to take your exalted presence" = to leave.
    tashriif rakhnaa: "to keep your exalted presence" = to be seated, to stay.
    tashriif farmaanaa: = tashriif laanaa & rakhnaa.
    tashriif farmaa honaa: = as above
    tashriif arzaanii farmaanaa: = as above.

    The latter three are graded in their politeness as I perceive them.

    liijiye means "please do take". What? tashriif? Doesn't make any sense because tashriif is neither "a seat" in any relevant way... tashriif liijiye is actually equivalent of tashriif le jaa'iye and could only point to a kind request to ask someone to leave.

    As a side note, Faylasoof SaaHib was kind to inform all that it can be expanded by words like Tokraa (borii etc.) for sounding contemptuous; it doesn't have to. In some circles and I can risk the statement that it is certainly in Lakhnawi Urdu but not only, I hope Faylasoof SaaHib can correct me on this, it is the preferred form to use while having a verbal fight.
     
  19. Sheikh_14 Senior Member

    English- United Kingdom, Urdu, Punjabi
    When someone offers something to eat the most common phrase used is lii jiye, as please do take. It by no means, implies take it way and go for pete's sake. You are right in that grammatically it may not be pristine, so be it, marhabtayn the Arabic response to Marhaba hello is neither. Yet it is commonly used. Just like with placebo tashriif to most evokes a seat rather than its original meaning call it semantic drift if you will. To the well read tawaif means a courtesan, to the philistine it means a whore. Illumanitus has touched light heartedly upon this in post 13.

    That being said from a purely grammatical persoective it is not correct. However, from human conceptions' it is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
  20. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I too will have to plead ignorance to this construction. Perhaps you have the opposite in mind....tashriif le jaa'iye.
     

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