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Persian: Why is tashdid needed?

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Daffodil100, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. Daffodil100

    Daffodil100 Senior Member

    Chinese
    Hi,

    I wonder why tashdid is needed if it is often ommitted in writing, and it seems no difference in pronounciation.

    For example, ملی mellee (with tashdid), melee (without tashdid)

    Are both of the double letters virtually pronounced?

    Thank you!
     
  2. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    Tashdid occurs almost exclusively in Arabic loan words. Persians will say /melli/ or /meli/. The former is considered more correct, but the latter is probably more common.
     
  3. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Actually, all my Iranian friends seem to pronounce the shaddah / tashdiid and I've also heard it in Persian broadcasts but I must make a note next time to see if the latter (without the shaddah) is used more or not.
     
  4. Daffodil100

    Daffodil100 Senior Member

    Chinese
    Thank you both very much for your replies.
     
  5. Aryamp

    Aryamp Persimod

    Tehran
    Persian
    It is indeed always pronounced, maybe sometimes less noticable nontheless there would be a big difference in pronunciation for me at least if a word like ملی had no tashdid.

    Also Tashdid is not only for Arabic loanwords, though indeed it occurs more often with Arabic words however there are many Persian words which carry tashdid :

    ٬ تپّه ٬ برّه ٬ درّه ٬ بچّه etc

    Now pronouncing these words without tashdid would be very strange.

    As you can see it actually makes a difference in pronunciation, but why isn't it always written? because it's one of those diacritical marks that can be omitted like short vowels. I know how to pronounce a word like بچه so it doesn't need to be written بَچّه . However whenever there's a possibility of ambiguity or mispronunciaiton it's better to include such diacritics:
    کَره
    (kare) (accent on last syllable) = butter
    کرّه (korre) = foal / offspring of quadruped
    کُره (kore) = Sphere , Korea
    کَره (kare) (colloquial / accent on first syllable) = he/she is deaf

    So depending on context sometimes it might be needed to include diacritics in order to distinguish between these words.(though of course there's no mark to indicate accent so the first and last words can only be distinguished through context)
     
  6. Daffodil100

    Daffodil100 Senior Member

    Chinese
    Thank you very much for your thorough illustration. I see.
     

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