Discussion in 'Multilingual Glossaries' started by VenusEnvy, Sep 7, 2005.
Ok, everyone, I'm going to give this a try. Be gentle!
alphabetized list in EN. I dispute the definition of couch/sofa. It should reflect that this object can accomodate more than one person at a time.
As stated, it could define an upholstered chair.
Nice beginning Venus.
I added the German translation ... hard stuff.
Considering all dialect variations, I added some of the Spanish translations I can think of. I expect some nice foreros to revise them.
Also, I think "gender" should not be included in Spanish. We should just add "el", "la" before the word. It can be confusing if one word translates into sereval in Spanish, which don't have the same gender.
Edit: revised copy considering Who's message.
Very good point, Phryne! German has three genders and every time I know more than only one translation I have to write "m/n" in the gender column which can be very confusing ... so I suggest us to use articles before the nouns.
I don't think it would be a good idea. But why not to discuss about it in the discussion thread?
I added some translations in French.
Adding Portuguese translation
I added Spanish translation for bedposts (I'd suggest either keeping the words in their singular form (bedpost = el dosel ), or specifying both singular and plural (bedpost-s = el/los dosel-es)
Two more entries added with their Spanish translations: bookcase and chest of drawers.
By the way, If I'm not wrong, in Spain I've never heard calling "mesita de luz" to the "night stand" but rather"mesita de noche" and the same thing with refrigerator (frigorífico) and "cushion" (cojín). I wondered where those varations are from
Thanks for the additions Niña.
Here is a proposal for additional translations:
copy the original word in the EN column, post it in a blank row at the bottom of the current list, then give your translation. Note, this is for additional translations. If you think an existing translation is wrong, discuss it here in the thread.
Ok, Cuchu...Additional translations added
By the way, I think the definition for mattress is incomplete
I have ...
- updated the German column
- added the French articles (natives please check)
- added "closet"
- added some English definitions
Here you go ...
By the way, regarding the spanish translation of "dresser" even if the wordreference dictionary "tocador" I must say that in spanish that furniture is to be used to make yourself pretty not meant to contain clothing. I would use "cómoda" instead.
A couple of responses to Whoooooooo
M and F are not confusing to most of the world. If one word translates into several in Spanish, give the several Spanish translations, each with the appropriate m/f designation. What's confusing about that?
What do you propose to do with the few exceptional words that are F but take the masculine definate article? The article is confusing, and more so than m/f. As this is a translators' glossary, let's assume that a native SP speaker knows which words take el/la/los/las, but a person doing the lookup wants to know the gender, to apply to both singular and plural and modifiers.
There may be a lot of merit in the approach you suggest, but I cannot help but wonder why every other glossary and dictionary I've ever seen prefers the gender coding in place of the article. I suggest you take this topic to the discussion thread.
No reason to be confused. The gender code belongs to the word you put in your translation column, and has nothing to do with other potential translations, which would get their own coding if and when you add them to the glossary.
I don't understand the way of "don't change" ... Why? It was German, and I think I know what and why I had to change. Unfortunately, everything went up and down in the file, so that a chair became a stool in German and so on ... Am I not allowed to change my own entries? Where else should I offer suggestions then?
Okay, but if the Spanish and German translations already have articles and the Portuguese, Catalan and French not yet, why can't I take the opportunity and change the articles as long as they're valid? If our Portuguese and Catalan friends see that the file has updated (articles added) they will download the file once more and revise their version again.
Getting more concerned about the articles that have been added to the SP translations.
Had you chosen to put them in the gender code column, it would have been a relatively manageable issue, but as you have chosen to put them in the same cell as the definition, you have really hindered the ability to alphabetize this glossary by Spanish word entries.
Please go back to the principle of the glossary creation: Add, don't change. Your format change makes this particular glossary useful to English speakers looking for translations to Spanish, but less than helpful for a Spanish speaker looking for the English equivalent.
You mean if I want to search for "Kühlschrank" in German, I should have the German list alphabetized (by "K") to see the Spanish and English translations? Hm ... possible.
The reson why I would suggest to use a gender column AND articles in the word's column is because in French you could have "l'armoire" which doesn't indicate feminine or maculine, so I have to add "f" following.
Who...I'm sure your approach has good intents, and some good logical basis. Let's take the discussion to the discussion thread, and leave this thread for the glossary itself.
It was confusing because I was inserting all the possible translations (feminine and masculine) into one cell instead of adding a new line. Oliver made me realize that.
Already discussed in the "discussion forum". Problem solved.
Actually, it's not solved. Somebody has to fix the mess I made. Who's responsible for that? Venus?
Yes, for this particular thread, Venus does all the furniture repair, but she has willing helpers, if needed
Vanda: Can you update using the table in my first thread? You've updated the older version which includes errors....
I'm not sure I did it correctly, it's just a test.
Venus, I think it is best that the last post with an attachment be the latest version. People get confused when you make changes and update your first post.So, if you update the file, post it again in a new post.
I see. Ok.
I'm waiting till the file is fixed.
Here is the attached sheet. Things are a little out of order. Please, try to keep the English part in alphabetical order. We are using the gender codes, not the article. Keep translations that consist of more than one entry on the same line; use a " / " to separate them. (We'll see! . . . )
Can those of you who posted confirm what's there?
Some weird things I see there:
1. I thought that sillón (armchair) and sofá (sofa) are not the same thing. Shouldn't they be in different rows?
2. I don't agree with translating dresser as "cajonera" (tallboy/ chest of drawers).
3. Floor lamp: its Spanish translation needs to be corrected --> lámpara de piso / lámpara de pie
4. headboard: it's clear its Sp translation is "cabecera", not necessary to repeat it twice
5. night stand: aka "mesita de noche" or "mesilla de noche" and not "mesa de noche" . It's not a whim that I wrote the diminutive
6. refrigerator: better known as "frigorífico" in Spain.
And that's all for the moment, I think
I have fixed the typos. As for the other translations, I can't change them . . .
Considering that some are my inputs, I feel compelled to reply.
In my country they are the same thing. Sillón is an armchair, but also, sillón is a couch/sofa like sofá,
I do understand "dresser" as a "high chest of drawers" as well as a "low chest of drawers". I bought a "dresser" that in my country would be called "cajonera".
A definition from dictionary.com: dresser
n 1: furniture with drawers for keeping clothes [syn: chest of drawers, chest, bureau]
I wrote most words there. In my country we call it "heladera", but I've seen enough American movies translated somewhere in Latin America, so I know they are also called "nevera", and "refrigerador". In my opinion, they should all be there. For "frigorífico", you can add it yourself. What we, simple foreros are not allowed to do, is to change, or delete words.
Friendly disagreement: If you have multiple translations, copy the original
EN word at the bottom, the add your translation in another language.
ENword .........sp word
Reason: eventually we want to be able to search theses glossaries in either direction: EN=>SP and SP=>EN
Also, we don't want to imply that every definition given is a synonym. The arguments would be endless!
I could say for example, that in some parts of Spain, 'nevera' is more common than 'frigorífico', and Niña and I could argue for weeks
Better to give the two alternate translations.
This also allows for regional variations within and between countries.
both are correct
Ok, so a new line for a new translation? Gotcha.
Oh, it's ok then. I didn't know about that I just wanted to express my thoughts out loud just in case.
Hmm.. My fault then. I thought a dresser was a chest of drawers with a mirror on top used specially by women. You know, a "tocador". Which is completely different from what I understand by "cajonera". Both "tocador" and "cajonera", opposite to "cómoda", wouldn't really mean to keep just clothes.
But well, I suppose it's a matter of regional variations.
I think you and Cuchu misunderstood me. I didn't mean your translation was wrong. I've heard about all those words before: nevera, refrigerador, heladera... but I thought that "frigorífico" deserved to be there too and since I'm not allowed to edit or delete, I prayed someone would listen to my words, because I saw all those synonyms separated by "/" and got confused. I was not sure if I should add other row for "frigorífico", as Cuchu told me once, or not.
"cachivachi" sounds so cute jeje.. I guess you meant "cachivache"
Well, now they're both in there.
Yes, add another line, and insert your new word. This time, I did it for you cause I was fixing the typos. But, I'm not using the "/", they're wrong. Take a new look at it, if you'd like. It should be updated.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
In that case I invite you to add it yourself. You open the last file that Venus posted, you add "frigorífico" (we are only allowed to include translations, but no to change anything) and attach the corrected file to a new message stating what you have corrected.
...and in my region we mispell things Thanks for the correction.
I get the feeling that everybody is getting the hang of this...AE slang...learning how to do it.
After the growing pains of the first 24 hours, this should get easy, and we can concentrate on just adding words, instead of the mechanics.
Why don't we all have a seat, take a deeeeeep breath, and sing in unison:
"Add but don't delete! [clap hands]
Oh it sure is sweet. [clap hands]
I can write what'er I please
on each and every sheet [clap hands]"
OK, time for ice cream
Seriously, you folks are brave and strong to volunteer to be the first to try this out. Your examples, and our debugging, will make it much easier for the next people who work together on a glossary.
Updated German versions and added new translations ... unfortunately everything was messed up.
I know I don't know what's going on here...but I thought that a "sillón" was an "easy chair" for one person only, whereas "sofá" is for two or more. Generally in US, a sofa seats three and the "loveseat" seats two.
A dresser is a kind of chest of drawers but is generally lower than a "chest of drawers" and has a largish mirror either attached or mounted on the wall above it.
In the South of the US, we use "commode" to mean the "necessary" fixture in the bathroom...the "inodoro," el WC, etc.
I took Whodunit's file from post #41 and added a few Spanish equivalencies that were missing... plus I added new entries in English (yes, at the bottom of the file) and provided their Spanish equivalencies.
I saw that Whodunit's file had no number, and the last numbered file by someone else was "8"... so my version included here is now "9".
I added some translations in French
Good morning everybody
1. New translations for "stool" and "four-poster bed" added
2. Some more English entries at the botton
Added some alternate EN definitions at bottom of EN list.
adjusted column widths.
Ahhh, thanks for that.
Niña: Can you try to keep it in alphabetical order? Thanks for adding English words. But, I don't even know what worktop and brazier table are. Can you add the definitions?
P.S. Cuchu: Should we even be keeping them in alphabetical order? . . .
Added some French words.
Ahh..No problem, I will. I thought I wasn't allowed to do that
If you don't know what "brazier table" and "worktop" are, then most probably I invented the words and be deleted straight away, oops!
What I call "brazier table" is like THIS. A round table covered with a round cloth and a brazier at the base.
...And a "worktop" would be a flat surface in a kitchen , on top of a cupboard for example, used for preparing food on.
Sure you can! You can add all you'd like. You just can't change someone else's work.
Oh, now, I wouldn't say that! It just means that I've never heard of it.
Ahh, I see.
Ahh, I see. Ok. Well, I would call that a "counter top". You see? It's alright, we just have different names for it.
Separate names with a comma.