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Please يُرجى - الرجاء

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by almu7akat, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. almu7akat New Member

    english
    Marhaba,

    I have one question regarding a grammatically bizarre (for me :)) sounding structure used in an airline's safety video demontration.

    يرجى الإنتباه بعناية بينما نعرض لكم إجراءات السلامة على متن هذه الطائرة

    Now my question is why a noun "al intibah" is used instead of a verb? I've been studying arabic in university for quite a while but I didn't come across such a structure yet.

    also I find this sentence confusing:

    الرجاء ربط أحزمة المقعد

    Now while it is not hard to guess what that means I still dont like the "rabt" here. assuming that rabt is 3rd person singular masculine past tense --> please he closed the seat belts? lool

    maybe someone can help?

    shukran lik,
    Michael
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  2. Kinan

    Kinan Senior Member

    Syria
    Arabic
    1- What else do you suggest?
    2- there is سكون at the end of ربط, so ربط here is مصدر not verb.
     
  3. almu7akat New Member

    english
    whats a مصدر? So how can one literally translate these sentences?
     
  4. Kinan

    Kinan Senior Member

    Syria
    Arabic
    A little correction, maybe there is ضمة as ربط is خبر للمبتدأ if I am not mistaken.
    مصدر is where all the verbs come from, like الذهاب, الضرب, الاكل
    The English structure is different from the Arabic one, in English it's "Please fasten your belt" so fasten here is a verb, and you presumed that it should be the same in Arabic.
     
  5. almu7akat New Member

    english
    ok, but im still confused... so when do I use a noun instead of a verb and when do I use a verb? and mostly, which person is addressed with such a noun? and I assume this is for present/future tense? also would it be wrong if i said "arraja irbit" (imperative/amr) or "arraja tarbitu" (present tense) ?
    in the case of intibah: "yurja natbih" (imperative/amr) or "yurja tunatbihu" (present tense)

    oh and when do i use yurja and arraja ? gosh the more i think about things the more questions arise... :confused:
     
  6. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    yurjā is passive. yurjā l-intibāʼu is literally “attention is requested”.

    By the way, the first letter in انتباء is hamzatu l-waṣl and should not be written as إ. This is a very common mistake.
     
  7. almu7akat New Member

    english
    lool so emirates "high as f*ck" and "because f*ck rules" wrongly wrote الإمارات on all of their airplanes?

    anyways maybe someone else can answer my question as to when and why nouns instead of verbs should/can be used?
     
  8. Kinan

    Kinan Senior Member

    Syria
    Arabic
    All people are addressed in this way.
    الرجاء اربط is correct when you are addressing a single person. الرجاء تربطوا doesn't even exist, you can say الرجاء اربطوا
    الرجاء ربط الاحزمة is the formal way to say it.
    You can use الرجاء and يرجى interchangeably but الرجاء is much more accurate and comfortable to say.
     
  9. almu7akat New Member

    english
    thanks kinan, what you suggest makes sense to me :)

    i didnt mean تربطوا what i meant was تربط (tarbitu, "u" denoting a damma...)

    so in the case of these formal noun sentences "rabt" is indefinite while "al intibah" is definite. cud I also say "arraja arrabt alahzimah"? and what would be the difference? or on the other hand "yurja intibah bi3nayah" instead of "al intibah" ?

    sorry for the awful lot of questions!
     
  10. Kinan

    Kinan Senior Member

    Syria
    Arabic
    You mean الرجاء الربط الاحزمة?
    It's not correct as two ال can't come on row between مضاف and مضاف اليه
    يرجى انتباه بعناية is also not correct, it should have ال in it.
     
  11. almu7akat New Member

    english
    i meant like: الرجاء الربط احزمة
    isnt the seatbelt on object rather than a genitive particle here?

    and why is the al necessary in the case of يرجى الانتباه بعناية ?
     
  12. Kinan

    Kinan Senior Member

    Syria
    Arabic
    You need someone more skillful in grammar rules to answer these questions, I am just saying they are wrong cos they have never been said or written anywhere like that :)
     
  13. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    إمارات has hamzatu l-qaṭʻ, so the spelling with إ is correct.
     
  14. almu7akat New Member

    english
    ok :) so is there anyone more skillful on this forum :p ?
     
  15. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    الرجاء مبتدأ
    ربط مضاف وهو خبر
    الأحزمة مضاف إليه


    الانتباه is definite because, like many other languages, that is how you refer to a general or abstract thing.
     
  16. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Michael, I am no more "skilful" than all the other friends who have attempted to answer your queries but I shall have a go.

    In these kinds of requests, Arabic speakers feel that the imperative mood (Do this and that) is possibly too harsh or abrupt. For this reason a verbal noun (masdar) is used.

    يرجى الإنتباه بعناية بينما نعرض لكم إجراءات السلامة على متن هذه الطائرة

    Attention is expected with care while we show you procedures of safety on this plane.

    In other words...

    Please pay careful attention while we show you safety procedures on this plane.

    الرجاء ربط أحزمة المقعد

    The expectation is the fastening of the belts of the seat

    Please fasten (your) seat belts.

    Now would you be kind enough to answer a small question for me? Was it really necessary for you to employ the words you used, albeit with an asterisk implant? Every language has its own method of putting information across and Arabic is no different. I might ask you, why you said, "I've been studying arabic in university for quite a while but I didn't come across such a structure yet", instead of "I've been studying Arabic at university for quite a while but I have n't yet come across such a structure"?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  17. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    I would call this airport Arabic. In real classical Arabic you cannot use the maṣdar as a polite replacement for the imperative. It is (I believe) a calque on French (prier d’attacher vos ceintures).
     
  18. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    It's a construction used very widely to phrase requests - not just in airports.
    رجاء التوجه إلى أقرب منفذ بيع
    رجاء توخي الحذر عند الاقتراب من الحافة
     
  19. suma Senior Member

    USA
    English, USA
    Rajaa means hope, and used like this it's a roundabout, indirect way of saying Please (do this or that) .
    I think in many cultures it's offensive or burdensome to ask a guest please sit here, or please use this, so instead they say things like "the hope is that one uses a coaster, it's hoped that people avoid using the upstairs bathroom"

    الرجاء ربط أحزمة المقعد this sentence is all nouns. The hope is fastening of seat belts, i.e. Please fasten your seat belt.
    Sometimes using the maSdar noun in Arabic gives the statement an air of eloquence, officialness or that certain desired quality.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012

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