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Pour servir et valoir ce que de droit

Discussion in 'French-English Vocabulary / Vocabulaire Français-Anglais' started by Nicky55, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. Nicky55 New Member

    UK, English
    Moderator note: multiple threads merged to create this one

    I'm having trouble translating this legal phrase. Can anyone help please?

    Many thanks
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2008
  2. Aupick

    Aupick Senior Member

    Strasbourg, France
    UK, English
    A suggestion: with all advantages thereto pertaining
    [...]
    But I'm far from being an expert in the law, and the context might be different.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  3. Agnès E.

    Agnès E. Senior Member

    France
    France, French
    I remember that we used to whom it may concern, but I don't know at what extent this can be used in every situation.
     
  4. Jean-Michel Carrère Senior Member

    French from France
    This is indeed what features on some certificates and diplomas in the UK, with, as far as I can see, a roughly equivalent meaning.
     
  5. jimreilly Senior Member

    Minneapolis
    American English
    I am translating an affidavit to aid an African friend seeking political refugee status. The affidavit closes with the following phrase, and my French is not up to this polite legalese:

    En foi de quoi la présente attestation lui est delivrée pour servir et valoir ce que de droit.

    If you can help me I would be grateful, and my friend even more so! Merci d'avance---
     
  6. Loki Junior Member

    Chicago
    French
    Tough one, even for most of French speaking people (I'm quite unsure of the origin and exact meaning)
    let's say : "with all advantages thereto pertaining", as at the end of some contracts.
    Does it helps ?
     
  7. jimreilly Senior Member

    Minneapolis
    American English
    Ou, ça m'aide, Loki (du nom Icelandais!), merci beaucoup!
     
  8. Grahamlekiwi New Member

    English, New Zealand
    With a background in law, I must admit that I have never seen any of those English translations (of "faire valoir ce que de droit") at the end of a legal document. Eg, "to whom it may concern" is generally only used at the beginning of the document. Otherwise, a French lawyer suggested that its true meaning is that you can only use the document for the purpose for which it was created, ie, not for another purpose. Which gets us back to the first suggestion, above, ie, "with all advantages thereto pertaining". I remain confused.
     
  9. adomi New Member

    Bangladesh
    Cameroon-French
    I'm not a Native English Speaker, but what Graham just said is what I too usually see at the beginning of the document, and we translate it as "Pour faire valoir ce que de droit". My question is :Does the position matter?
     
  10. Agnès E.

    Agnès E. Senior Member

    France
    France, French
    Actually, I've always seen what we call in French attestations entitled TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN, this title being followed by the content of the said attestation. As Graham stated, attestations are to be used for a specific purpose and occasion only. :)
     
  11. Grahamlekiwi New Member

    English, New Zealand
    An "attestation" is an unsworn, but formal, statement, ie, what we would call a declaration. The "faire valoir" phrase (it seems to come in long and shorter forms) seems to indicate Agnes E's "specific purpose and occasion only", ie, that the following or preceding words are intended to have legal effect. (Someone else used "in witness whereof" as a translation at the end of a document, but I don't think that is right as witnesses aren't involved in a declaration - I've also seen the "faire valoir" phrase at the end of a contract.) Maybe there are two translations ?? - "to whom ..." where used preceding text and "with all advantages ... " where following. (ie, "to whom" seems to suggest something coming next). Isn't there a French lawyer out there somewhere watching this exchange?
     
  12. judkinsc

    judkinsc Senior Member

    Indiana
    English, USA
    "With all rights and priviledges pertaining thereto." perhaps?


    "En foi de quoi la présente attestation lui est delivrée pour servir et valoir ce que de droit."

    "In faith of which the present attestation is delivered to him with all rights and priviledges pertaining thereto."

    Or no?
     
  13. Gil Senior Member

    Français, Canada
    AMHA.
    «À qui de droit» is used at the beginning of a document
    « En foi de quoi la présente attestation lui est delivrée pour servir et valoir ce que de droit.» cannot be used at the beginning of a documennt.
     
  14. Gil Senior Member

    Français, Canada
    Judkinsc is pretty close.

    Source: There
    Je n'aime pas trop le passage «sur sa demande» qui devrait être «à sa demande». La perfection attendra...
     
  15. judkinsc

    judkinsc Senior Member

    Indiana
    English, USA
    "With all rights and priviledges pertaining thereunto." is fairly standard for legalese documents.

    Just my two cents.
     
  16. zam

    zam Senior Member

    England
    England -french (mother tongue) & english
    A classic in law...but not an easy one nonetheless ! There are several possibilities. I'd say:
    'the present attestation is issued for all legal intents and purposes.'
    (or 'for all lawful purposes').
    EuroDicAutom offers: 'with all advantages thereto pertaining', which is
    fine as well here.
     
  17. jimreilly Senior Member

    Minneapolis
    American English
    EuroDicAutom offers: 'with all advantages thereto pertaining', which is
    fine as well here.

    Well, a lot of work has gone into my question, and I appreciate the work involved from all parties. You folks are great! Merci beaucoup!
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2008
  18. nmontrose New Member

    USA - French, Creole
    TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN is the equivalent of A QUI DE DROIT when issuing a certificate (a salutation indicating the unknown status of the addressee)...

    Should not be confused with the closing: "This certificate is issued to serve and avail for all legal intents and purposes."

    I hope this clears all misunderstandings and confusion.
     
  19. C. E. Whitehead Senior Member

    Etats Unis
    English, U.S.
    Hi, I go with the person from Michigan--stay as literal as possible as you are not interpreting; the phrase "servir et valoir ce que de droit" is common on French documents; but since this legal document is a bit different than a U.S. document, you can just render it literally and let that be interpreted by the courts; you can't translate it into an 'equivalent' U.S. legal document --

    "En foi de quoi la présente attestation lui est delivrée pour servir et valoir ce que de droit."

    "In faith of which the present attestation [alternately the attestation in question] is delivered to him with all rights and priviledges pertaining thereto."

    --CEW
     
  20. C. E. Whitehead Senior Member

    Etats Unis
    English, U.S.
    Hi, it's just a formulaic closing; I have seen it on a couple of French documents.
    'En foi' is 'in faith';
    'de quoi' is of which (that is 'of which has been said just before');
    l'a présente attestation' is the certificate in question, the certificate before you (in this case the legal document);
    'pour' is for (if it is followed by a verb, the verb must be an infinitive);
    'valoir' is to be worth, to be valued for;
    'servir' is to be used ('servir à' is to be used for);
    'lui est delivrée' means 'is given to him' (lui is him; delivrée is a feminine participle because it refers back to the attestation; that's what is given to him);
    'ce', that
    'que' is what, which.
    'de droit' is by rights or by law--something like that, something formulaic!

    Make sure you translate the rest faithfully.
     
  21. C. E. Whitehead Senior Member

    Etats Unis
    English, U.S.
    Hi, again. I am now having to translate this phrase myself. Looking at it again, I see that it must be a formulaic closing that might be used to protect the document creator/deliverer from lawsuits should the document be misused;
    so it seems that the advice Graham L. got from the French lawyer was correct:
    "a French lawyer suggested that its true meaning is that you can only use the document for the purpose for which it was created, ie, not for another purpose."

    "to be used as fit"
    "to be used appropriately"

    would work here but would not be legalese! I like the first of these in English.
     
  22. Broff Senior Member

    Maryland
    French
    I have to translate the following sentence at the end of an official document:

    En foi de quoi, la présente attestation lui est délivrée pour servir et valoir ce que de droit.

    I translated it as:

    On the basis of which the present attestation has therefore been awarded (or delivered?) to him to serve (as what entitled???) ...
     
  23. xtrasystole

    xtrasystole Senior Member

    France
    '... for the appropriate legal purposes'.
     
  24. Gil Senior Member

    Français, Canada
    ...with all advantages thereto pertaining

    [...]
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2008
  25. bh7 Senior Member

    Limestone City
    Canada; English
    Based on the earlier thread, in particular Gil's suggestions:

    On the basis of which the present attestation has been delivered to him to serve and avail [be used] for any rightful purpose.
     
  26. lajoiedetomber Junior Member

    USA; English
    Hi, I was wondering how to translate the expression "pour servir et valoir ce que de droit" into English. Is it something like, "to serve in its own right"? Here is the full sentence for context:

    Le present document est etabli a la demande de [nom], pour servir et valoir ce que de droit".

    Merci!
     
  27. wildan1

    wildan1 Moderando ma non troppo

    It means that the document is valid for anything that it is valid for!

    It's a stock phrase in official French documents that we don't really use in English. You don't really need to translate it--it makes no sense in English.
     
  28. lajoiedetomber Junior Member

    USA; English
  29. Nicomon

    Nicomon Senior Member

    Montréal
    Français, Québec ♀
    Hello and welcome to the forums:)

    [...]

    For all legal intents and purposes would be my choice.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2011
  30. Gerard Samuel Senior Member

    New York City
    American English
    I suggest:

    To be validly used for all lawful purposes.
     

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