prendersela (con)

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by Mike Gardener, Mar 22, 2005.

  1. Mike Gardener Junior Member

    Connecticut
    USA, English
    Leggo una storia di Natalia Ginzburg (Fragola e Panna). Ho letto una frase che usa prendersela:

    I am reading a story by Natalia Ginzburg (Strawberry and Cream). I read a sentence which uses prendersela.

    Vorrei capire meglio gli usi di prendersela. Il mio dizionario italiano include preoccuparsi come una definizione di prendersela, ma e' piu forte che preoccuparsi, no? Di solito, implica prendersela la rabbia?

    I would like to better understand the ways of using prendersela. My Italian dictionary includes preoccuparsi as a definition of prendersela, but it is stronger than to worry, isn't it? Usually, does prendersela imply anger?

    Mi sarei grato per l'auito.

    Mike
     
  2. DDT

    DDT Senior Member

    Paris, France
    Italy - Italian
    "Prendersela" corresponds to "to take offence at something" or "to get angry with somebody" and can be rendered as "non se ne preoccupa" in the context you quoted

    DDT
     
  3. Silvia

    Silvia Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Or even... è uno che non se la prende mai, I would translate that as he's the kind who always takes it easy...
     
  4. Mike Gardener Junior Member

    Connecticut
    USA, English
    Grazie, DDT e Silvia.

    Prendersela describes being offended or angered by something or by somebody.

    Spero che gli esempi seguenti siano giusti:

    Molti fumatori se la prendono dalle nuove regole che vietano fumare nei posti pubblici.
    Many smokers are offended by/angered by the new rules which forbid smoking in public places.

    La sua opinione me l'ho presa.
    His opinion offended me.

    Gradirei ogni correzione.

    Mike
     
  5. DDT

    DDT Senior Member

    Paris, France
    Italy - Italian
    Hope it helps,

    DDT
     
  6. Mike Gardener Junior Member

    Connecticut
    USA, English
    Grazie, DDT. Mi aituano i tuoi suggerimenti.

    Mike
     
  7. Silvia

    Silvia Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Hi Mike, I want to keep the verb in both sentences:

    Molti fumatori se la sono presa per le nuove regole che vietano di fumare nei luoghi pubblici (o luoghi aperti al pubblico).

    Me la sono presa per il suo giudizio.

    What do you think?
     
  8. Mike Gardener Junior Member

    Connecticut
    USA, English
    Ciao, Silvia.

    Pensando alle tue fraze, ho fatto delle ricerche sul Web per trovare piu' informazione su prendersela. Veramente trovo difficolta' ad imparare e capire questi verbi pronominali. Pero' nelle mie ricerche ho trovato la tua risposta a mwebster (3 genn. 05) su questi verbi. Devo studiare qual che hai scritto a mwebster.

    Nel frattempo, penso che tutt'e due delle tue esempi abbiano ragione. Vediamo. Se uso la tua seconda frase come un esempio, penso che le seguenti frasi abbiano ragione anche:

    Te la sei presa per il suo giudizio.
    You were angered by his opinion.

    Ve la siete presa per il suo giudizio.
    You were angered by his opinion.

    Ce la siamo presa per il suo giudizio.
    We were angered by his opinion.

    Ma:

    Ce le siamo prese per i suoi giudizio. (?)
    Ce la siamo presa per i suoi giudizio. (?)

    'la' (nel prendersela) e' invariabile?

    Come ho fatto?

    Mike
     
  9. DDT

    DDT Senior Member

    Paris, France
    Italy - Italian
    Yes, "la" is invariable this case
    Please notice you cannot say "ce le siamo prese" except when meaning "we took them"

    DDT
     
  10. Mike Gardener Junior Member

    Connecticut
    USA, English
    My thanks to you, DDT. I've so much to learn.

    At this point, I don't understand the use of ce le siamo prese.

    Perhaps this should be another thread, but, for example, I've learned:

    Avete preso le carte geographiche dal tavolo?
    Le abbiamo prese.

    Avete preso le uova a tue sorelle?
    Gliele abbiamo preso. (Le abbiamo preso loro.)

    Would you give me an example of ce le siamo prese (we took them) in a sentence?

    Again, thank you.

    Mike
     
  11. Mike Gardener Junior Member

    Connecticut
    USA, English
    DDT, scusami. Ho scritto:

    Avete preso le uova a tue sorelle?
    Gliele abbiamo preso. (Le abbiamo preso loro.)

    Invece:

    Gliele abbiamo prese. (Le abbiamo prese loro.)

    Mike
     
  12. Silvia

    Silvia Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Mike, non so se "to be angered" è la traduzione corretta per prendersela, forse "to get bothered" è meglio? Anger mi sembra un sentimento forte.

    Ce le siamo prese? Non c'è mai una risposta precisa, molto dipende dal contesto. Può anche riferirsi a botte... come anche per "le ha prese" = he/she got beated (up)
     
  13. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    "Non se la prendere" in English can be conveyed by saying, "No offense," as DDT said. Or, "don't let it get to you."
     
  14. Mike Gardener Junior Member

    Connecticut
    USA, English
    Grazie, Silvia, DDT and Isp. Ora capisco meglio il significato e l'uso di prendersela. Il carattere generoso di questo gruppo e' incredibile.

    Stamattina devo uscire per studiare l'italiano dalla mia professoressa. Fa brutto tempo ma questo tempo non me la prende.

    Ancora grazie a tutti.

    Mike
     
  15. DDT

    DDT Senior Member

    Paris, France
    Italy - Italian
    Hope it helps,

    DDT
     
  16. Mike Gardener Junior Member

    Connecticut
    USA, English
    Si', DDT. L'aiuta. Guidando a casa dopo la mia lezione ho ricordato quello che ho scritto piu' presto
    sul tempo. Ho dovuto ridere perche' oggi, nel mio primo messaggio, ho scritto che capisco meglio il verbo. Allora, ho fatto immediatemente uno sbaglio.

    Yes, DDT. It helps. While driving home after my lesson, I remembered what I wrote earlier
    about the weather . I had to laugh because today, in my first message, I wrote that I understand the verb better. Then, I immediately made a mistake.

    Vedo anche i cambiamenti che hai fatto nel mio secondo paragrafo.
    I also see the changes you made in my second paragraph.

    Con umilita',
    Humbly,

    Mike
    Non tutte le ciambelle riescono col bucco.
    Things can't be expected to turn out right everytime.
     
  17. DDT

    DDT Senior Member

    Paris, France
    Italy - Italian
    I corrected some details...non prendertela!!! ;)
    Your Italian is brilliant! :)

    DDT
     
  18. archimede Senior Member

    A few minor corrections (hope you don't mind :)).

    Alessandro
     
  19. Mike Gardener Junior Member

    Connecticut
    USA, English
    DDT e archimede, sono utili incredibilmente le vostre correzioni. Grado i vostri suggerimenti ed il vostro sapere.

    DDT and archimede, your corrections are incredibly useful. I accept with pleasure your suggestions and your knowledge.

    Mike
     
  20. Scrumpals

    Scrumpals Senior Member

    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    USA - English
    Ciao tutti - stavo provando a seguire la precedente:

    me la sono presa = I got upset
    me lo sono preso = i took it for myself
    me le sono presi/e = i took them for myself
    l'ho preso = i took it
    l'ho presi = i took them
    Ce la siamo presa = we got upset
    Ce la siamo prese = we took it for ourselves/each other
    Ce le siamo presi = we took them for ourselves/each other

    ovviamente - ho bisogno del vostro aiuto
    Grazie!

    steven
     
  21. Jana337

    Jana337 Senior Member

    čeština
    Needless to say, aspetta i madrelingua.

    Jana
     
  22. AlxGrim

    AlxGrim Senior Member

    Roma, Italy
    Italy, Italian
    I'll try to summarize:

    . prendersela per qualcosa (me la sono presa, te la sei presa, se l'e' presa, ce la siamo presa, ve la siete presa, se la sono presa) means "to get offended/bothered" by something said or done ("se l'e' presa perche' non l'ho chiamato")
    . prenderle (le ho prese, le hai prese, le ha prese, le abbiamo prese, le avete prese, le hanno prese) means "to be beated" ("abbiamo discusso e le ho prese"). In this case you can add "di santa ragione", meaning the beating was quite hard... :)
     
  23. Scrumpals

    Scrumpals Senior Member

    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    USA - English
    Wow - prenderle - un altro verbo che non sapevo esistito (is this the way to say "i didn't know existed"?). Ok so if I say:
    "abbiamo discusso e le ho prese"
    does this mean:
    "we discussed (it) and i beat him" or "i was beaten"?
     
  24. Elisa68 Senior Member

    Italy Language:Italian
    :)
     
  25. Scrumpals

    Scrumpals Senior Member

    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    USA - English
    Thanks Elisa - so now what if i want to say "you beat me" - or "I was beaten by you"?

    "le ho prese da te"??

    What about "he beat them?"

    "le hanno prese da lui"?
     
  26. Elisa68 Senior Member

    Italy Language:Italian
    Steven, è un linguaggio decisamente colloquiale. La maniera corretta di dirlo probabilmente è Sono stato picchiato da te o Mi hai picchiato(I was beaten by you) e Li ha picchiati (he beat them).:)
     
  27. Scrumpals

    Scrumpals Senior Member

    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    USA - English
    Me le hai date - is the verb darle. if so does darle = prenderle?
     
  28. Elisa68 Senior Member

    Italy Language:Italian
    Per chiarire:
    Dare (le botte) = I beat you
    prendere (le botte)= You beat me.
    Botte= trashing?
     
  29. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    I would like to add a thing:
    "prenderle" is also used in a figurative way, and it means "to be beaten" as in "to be beaten in a context"

    So:
    - Abbiamo discusso(=debated) e le ho prese=(I lost)"
    - "Abbiamo discusso(=quarrelled) e le ho prese=(I was physically beaten)"

    In English the verb as both meanings as well so it is important to pay attention to the context.

    Uinni
     
  30. Scrumpals

    Scrumpals Senior Member

    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    USA - English
    Grazie Uinni e Elisa. Ora ha piu' senso.
    Mi sembra che "le botte" = "whipping or beating"
    We took the whipping/beating = le abbiamo prese

    We gave (them/him/her) a whipping/beating = le abbiamo date.

    Sembra giusto?
    Steve
     
  31. Elisa68 Senior Member

    Italy Language:Italian
    :tick:
     
  32. uinni

    uinni Senior Member

    Italy, Italian
    Yes!

    Uinni

    B.t.w: this thread was started for "prendersela" (so I'd like to recall at this point that "prendersela" is not "prendersele" -see the first posts for the correct translation)
     
  33. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    thrashing
     
  34. klaymen New Member

    Hi all,

    I'm new in this forum (and to Italian, just started learning it a few months ago), I found it by a google search for "ce la siamo presa" (I wanted to know about whether a past participle adjusts a preceding direct pronoun even if "essere" was used). But the thread was so interesting that I subscribed to the forum :D

    I hope it's ok I dig out this old thread once more? There's one thing I don't understand about it, in the following posting:
    I don't understand the last two examples... why "ce la siamo prese" and "ce le siamo presi"? Shouldn't it also be "ce la siamo presa" (and the last one "ce le siamo prese"), even in the sense of "we took it/them for ourselves"?

    Maybe the following examples clarify my original question, but I take another verb - mangiare - to avoid messing up with prendersela. The point is that in Italian transitive verbs that one does to oneself can be expressed in a reflexive way. So I can say "mangiamo la mela", but also "ci mangiamo la mela". If these verbs are then put into passato prossimo, the first becomes "abbiamo mangiato la mela", but the second beomes "ci siamo mangiati la mela": one has to use "essere" because mangiarsi is reflexive (and hence "mangiati" adjusts to the subject). Now what happens if "la mela" becomes "la" and precedes the verb? On one hand, you get "l'abbiamo mangiata" - in this case mangiato adjusts to the object ("la" in this case). My question now was if the reflexive version would be "ce la siamo mangiati" (adjustment to the subject, "we" in this case), or "ce la siamo mangiata" (adjustment to the object, "la" in this case) - and I tend to believe that the second version is correct. At least ...locuta.com/vol2.html (precede by www, I'm not allowed to post links yet :) says towards the end:
    So i don't understand "ce la siamo prese"... maybe I missed something?

    Thanks in advance, Andy
     
  35. archimede Senior Member

    And you are quite right. :)
    Actually, that's a typo: see the answer immediately following that post you are referring to.

    HTH.

    Alessandro
     
  36. Willi

    Willi Senior Member

    Milano Italy
    Italy - Italian
    You are right, the correct version is "ce la siamo mangiata", it's also "ce la siamo presa" "ce le siamo prese"... it was corrected in post #21 by jana, maybe you missed it;)
    BTW welcome to the forum!
     
  37. Alxmrphi Senior Member

    Reykjavík, Ísland
    UK English
    Sorry for needing a clarification after all these posts, but, it'll help if I consciously go through a translation in my head.

    Prendersela = to take offense
    Lei se l'ha presa - she took offence

    Prendersele = to be beaten
    Lui se le ha prese = He was beaten

    "If you beat me then I will take offence" - Se me le prendi poi me la prenderò

    ??
     
  38. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    See #22: prenderle, not prensersela - it isn't reflexive when it means to get beaten
     
  39. Alxmrphi Senior Member

    Reykjavík, Ísland
    UK English
    Is it, like hit beaten? or like on a game beaten?
     
  40. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    From #12: Può anche riferirsi a botte... come anche per "le ha prese" = he/she got beaten (up)

    botte = blows, strikes, etc.

    Read the thread!
     
  41. Alxmrphi Senior Member

    Reykjavík, Ísland
    UK English
    It's too complicated!
    Why does everyone keep saying "beated" ?
     
  42. AlxGrim

    AlxGrim Senior Member

    Roma, Italy
    Italy, Italian
    ISP:

    "If you beat me then I will take offence" - Se me le dai poi me la prenderò
     
  43. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    Non me la prendo però l'ha scritto Alex :cool:
     
  44. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    Prendersela con qualcuno = to pick on someone.
     
  45. GavinW Senior Member

    Italy
    British English
    I'm not so sure, Paul. If sb picks on sb else, they usually do so without having been provoked. Bullies frequently "pick on" sb just for fun, without having been provoked into doing so. Whereas in Italian normally it is a response to a perceived attack, insult etc, or to perceived harm etc.

    Better: "to take it out on sb" (eg "Don't take it out on me; I'm only the cleaner!"). This particular translation, as far as I can see, has not yet been suggested in this thread, and I think can be quite useful (NB "it" here is invariable and fixed, rather like the "la" in "prendersela").

    EDIT: Whoops, somebody just suggested this in a (temporarily) concurrent thread ("Non prendertela con me")
     
  46. Paulfromitaly

    Paulfromitaly MODerator

    Brescia (Italy)
    Italian
    Yes, in fact we use it that way too:

    Paul se la prende con quelli che non c'entrano.
    Paul se la prende con primo che passa.
    Paul se la prende sempre col più debole.

    In all these examples no one has provoked Paul.
     
  47. GavinW Senior Member

    Italy
    British English
    OK, ammettiamolo, siamo tutti degli attaccabriga! (PS small typo above, hope you don't mind; non me ne volere; non prendertela col pianista ecc..)
     
  48. 5punti Junior Member

    Italy Italian
    Ciao: come si può tradurre, per esempio, "se la prende sempre con i più deboli"?
    Grazie,
    5punti
     
  49. baldpate

    baldpate Senior Member

    London
    UK, English
    Direi ...

    He always picks on the weakest.
    He always takes it out on the weakest.

    Dai un' occhiata agli post precedenti. Se dopo sei ancora incerto, puoi sempre aggiungere un tuo post per chiedere chiaramento.
     
  50. logic3d New Member

    UK
    English UK
    Hi, what does the saying "se la prende (in this case prendono)" mean. This is the context.

    "loro se ne vanno e mi lasciano sola. Se la prendono perché ho un po di amiche"

    Grazie
     

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