Prepositional complement

Discussion in 'All Languages' started by binary_death, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. binary_death Member

    Galicia, Spain
    Spanish, Catalan
    Hello everyone!

    I would like to ask you how does your language get around the problem of prepositional complements.

    For example, in a pair of languages:


    soñar con
    depender de
    hablar de

    alegre de
    convencido de


    dream of
    think of
    insist on

    afraid of
    confident on

    There are some languages that avoid this on different way. Could you give me an example of your own?

    Thanks =)
  2. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Dutch: we can make a verb based on the prefix be-, making the prep. obj. a direct object...

    Not too common, but basically that is the origin of the be-:

    - ik speel op een piano (I play on), het veld > ik bespeel ...
    - ik kijk naar een programma (I look at) > ik bekijk ...[I watch]

    So there is a slight different in aspect, and it is not really productive anymore, except ironically.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
  3. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Turkish: we can transform the verb into a noun, which allows us to use declensions on it.
  4. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Could you illustrate that by means of an example that you translate word by word?
  5. binary_death Member

    Galicia, Spain
    Spanish, Catalan
    That's very interesting. I ask for the same, please :eek:
  6. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Ah... sorry, now that I have re-read the thread, I noticed that I misunderstood the question.
    I thought, for some reason, you were asking about the cases where the object is a verb - like: I am afraid of doing. etc.

    Well we don't have prepositions in Turkish. We have certain postpositions like: ile (with), için (for) etc, and then we have noun cases which compensate for the commoner prepositions like of/from, to, in and so on.

    For example, if we were to translate the Spanish phrase: hablar de un problema, we would utilize the ablative case: Bir problemden bahsetmek
  7. binary_death Member

    Galicia, Spain
    Spanish, Catalan
    That's good! It's built in a very similar way to all languages which have grammatical cases such as finnish (the only one that I actually have proof).
    By the way, can you explain me how do you do in adjectives cases?
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  8. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    It's the same, except instead of a verb you have the adjective. In Turkish we don't use the verb to be, unlike Finnish, so the adjective acts like the verb. This is a bit like the Russian: zero-copula, but not exactly, because we kind of "conjugate" the adjective.

    Estoy (or "soy"?) contento = Mutluyum.
    Estoy contento de esto = Bundan* mutluyum.

    *Ablative, again.
  9. e2-e4 X Senior Member


    What is the difference in Turkish between postpositions and case endings? Thank you. :)

    This all is very similar to Russian, we use both noun cases and prepositions. The difference between the two is that, if a chain of nouns and adjectives is composed of words that play the same role in the sentence, then the first is attached to every noun and to every adjective in the chain (although in the modern language the case endings are different for attributive adjectives and nouns), but the second is only written/pronounced once, before the first noun/adjective in the chain, which may be either a description of a single object, or a series of names for different objects.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  10. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    The difference is, postpositions are separate words. Compare the following:

    Ev için = For the house --- (Postposition)
    Eve = to(wards) the house / homewards --- (Dative)

    Unlike Russian, Turkish declensions are not affected by postpositions. You can have: Я вижу Антона, where Антона is in accusative case,
    but you can also have (I hope it's correct): Я то делаю за Антона, where the only reason the Антона is in accusative case is the existence of the preposition. In Turkish this is not the case.

    I see Anton = Anton'u görüyorum. (Anton'u = accusative)
    This is for Anton = Bu, Anton için.
  11. binary_death Member

    Galicia, Spain
    Spanish, Catalan
    Thank you so much, it is clear. The Turkish adjectives acting as a verb is a very interesting and curious happening. They remind me a little of Japanese adjectives :p.
    Anyway that remains out of this topic.

    Well, now we have some examples of Dutch and Turkish. Any other language? :)
  12. e2-e4 X Senior Member

    Thank you for your formulation! The only problem that I'm having is that the question, what kind of thing a word actually is, looks to be not-so-easy. :) All right.
    Thanks, this is very interesting! Yes, in Russian, prepositions can govern case of nouns in accordance with the verb that takes place in the clause.

    I'll rewrite your example for binary_death: "Я сделал это для Антона" is a Russian for "I made it for Anton" (here Антон is actually in Genitive, because the preposition "для" requires the Genitive case). So, in Russian we indeed use both case endings and prepositions to render the idea, and we either use both of them at the same time (in which case the preposition governs the noun's case in a way, that is influenced by the verb in the clause), or we use only the case of the noun (in which case it is governed by the verb only); no noun or adjective can be thought without its case, and only a subject of a clause, or a complement of a copula, may be in the Nominative case.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012

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