(Probably) Turkish: Baratlia

Discussion in 'Etymology, History of languages and Linguistics (EHL)' started by Sashh, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. Sashh New Member

    Hello, I'm from Macedonia, I'm working on a book about customs, legends etc. in a region in Macedonia. So, the informers mentioned a name Surudji Bogdan, and also there is a village Baratlia, which obviously originate from the Turkish language. Can somebody help me about the etymology of those nouns - <...> Baratlia? Thank you very much!

    Moderator note: Please don't ask for two independent words in one thread. Please open news threads for new words. First question is here.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2013
  2. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Barát is the Hungarian word for friend. But this is just a wild guess.
  3. murattug Senior Member

    baratlia may be "beratlı"
    berat is a kind of letter from sultan to give some auhority or exemption.
  4. Sashh New Member

    Yeah <...> you're probably right.

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2013
  5. berndf Moderator

    German (Germany)
    Moderator note: Thread split.
  6. ancalimon Senior Member

    Without knowing the story behind the name and things related with the location, here are some possibilities:

    bor: gray
    at: horse
    lı: containing condition suffix

    bor atlı : the place that have gray horses.

    Bora: northern wind, heavy snow
  7. Treaty Senior Member

    If we seek for a Turkish origin, this is one option. Berat (from Arabic barā'ah براءة) means a letter of consent in Turkish. But I'm not sure about lı suffix. It can be Ali as Barāt'alī براتعلی (= sanctioned by Ali) that is common in Iran. I wonder if Alewites in Ottoman empire had also such naming tradition (i.e. attaching a word to Ali).
  8. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    It's nothing to do with Ali because the dotless i is a separate letter altogether.
  9. ancalimon Senior Member

    bar means wall~obstacle in Proto-Turkic (today duvar means wall). Bar also means "cargo". So maybe it's related with the wall meaning or the cargo meaning?
  10. chrysalid Member

    Ankara, Turkey
    That sounds more plausible than other suggestions. I vaguely remember some place names of Turkish origin in Serbia that end with "-lija", with the Turkish original ending with suffix -li or that are in the form of a non-Turkish word plus Turkish suffix -li, like Skadarlija in Belgrade. It could be beratlı but I have no idea about the soun change e >a.
  11. Christo Tamarin

    Christo Tamarin Senior Member

    In some dialect of Turkish, that change might occur in order to achieve the vocal harmony which missed in that word (berat) being a loanword from Arabic.

    Other examples: Merhaba! => Marhaba!

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