pronunciation - ed (regular verbs, past tense)

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by Antonnio, Dec 11, 2004.

  1. Antonnio Senior Member

    off
    Off
    I need help with the pronunciation of regular verbs in past tense, I've read many rules about it but I'm very confused with some sounds of this kind of verbs:

    danced = dansD or dansT?
    bathed = béithID or ...?!
    used = useT or useD?
    erased = eraseT or eraseD?
    closed = closeT or closeD?
    dress=?
    missed= ?
    stayed= ?
    buzzED?=sound?
    splashED?=?

    I've read that sound "T" goes after non gutural sounds
    and sound "D" after gutural sounds...but it's not very clear what about this kind of sounds "s, z" and some other of this kind which I don't have the correct caracter to represent them... I'm made a mess...I've tried with the table of symbols and respective sounds but it's not clear to me...pls give some examples specially with kind of sounds "s, z, " that go with "d, t" pronuntiation at the end...I'LL APPRECIATE YOUR TIME N HELP :)
     
  2. Bawang Senior Member

    New York
    USA English-Spanish
    danced = T
    bathed = D
    used = T
    erased = T
    closed = T
    dress= T
    missed= T
    stayed= D
    buzzED?=sound? D - Trata de producir una S y hacer un sonido vocálico a la vez para producir la zz
    splashED?=? T
     
  3. zebedee

    zebedee the manamana mod

    Valencia - Spain
    Gt. Britain - English
    Hola Antonnio.
    El tema de pronunciación "D" o "T" de los verbos regulares confunde a muchos estudiantes de inglés, no sólo a ti. Todo depende de la última letra sonora del infinitivo.

    Pero no te preocupes y sobre todo no te agobies con este tema porque realmente sólo tiene importancia en los libros de texto!, en la vida real ni se nota la diferencia. Es más, si preguntas a un nativo anglófono de la calle cuál es la diferencia de pronunciación "T" de "danced" y "D" de "arrived", p.ej., no sabrá de qué hablas ni que existe una diferencia porque a la hora de hablar no se nota.

    Lo que se nota y tiene importancia es: the extra syllable when the verb ends in the letter t or d: demanded, regretted, directed. Entonces la pronunciación es "id".

    Ah, y si después de todo, necesitas saber la razón fonética de "D" y "T" pronunciación para un libro de texto, en términos generales fíjate dónde tienes la lengua al terminar de pronunciar el infinitivo. Si la tienes en la parte de delante de la boca, automáticamente sigues con "t" (ej: danced, increased) y si la tienes en el paladar o la parte detrás de la boca, te saldrá un "d" (arrived, hoped). Pero, te repito, a la hora de hablar la única diferencia que se nota es the extra syllable o no. (directed vs. danced)

    Es más fácil explicarlo cara a cara que aquí en el foro, pero espero que te ayude en algo.

    Un abrazo,
    Zeb
     
  4. jacinta Senior Member

    California
    USA English

    I agree with all but close. It is usually pronounced Clozed.
     
  5. Elaine Junior Member

    Barrie, Ontario
    Canada - English French
    Wow! this is fascinating.
    Zebedee's explanation is perfect. I AM a native anglophone and he is absolutely right, the D/T thing is a non-issue. I've never thought consciously about the distinction in my life. However, today I've learned (D) something new from our learned (ID) friend Zebedee.
    Good luck with your studies Antonnio,
    Elaine
     
  6. Antonnio Senior Member

    off
    Off
    Thanks for you help... I have to teach basic English due the "official" English teacher has been ill... now the principal asked me to sustitute that teacher... the students are learning the past tense and I need a clear explanation...so I made a summary to give them all the possible examples to pronounce "-ED" in the past tense...PLS CORRECT ME OR ADD SOMETHING MISSING

    PRONOUNCE "T" WHEN THE FINAL SOUND* IS:

    F= lauGH
    CH= watCH
    S= cloSe
    K= talK
    P= stoP
    SH= waSH

    PRONOUNCE "D" WHEN THE FINAL SOUND IS:
    B= roB
    Gu(soft)= beG
    L= wheL
    M= dreaM
    N= cleaN
    TH(air escapes from tooth)= baTHe
    DY= judGe ("Y" represents a spanish sound)
    V= loVe
    Z= quiZ
    also when the word finishes in a vowel sound
    TRY, STAY

    PRONOUNCE "ID" WHEN THE FINAL SOUND IS "T, D"
    wanTID
    lanDID

    *I'm using letters that represents spanish sounds.
    pls tell me if something is wrong or add something missed. THAAAANK YOUUUUU!
    http://www.uiowa.edu/~acadtech/phonetics/english/frameset.html
    I found that wsite where you'll be able to see phonetics and hear sounds
     
  7. Bawang Senior Member

    New York
    USA English-Spanish
    English is spoken in so many places with slight variations that I imagine that could be so somewhere. I can tell you it´s certainly not pronounced that way in New York.
     
  8. Bawang Senior Member

    New York
    USA English-Spanish
    I agree with you that it´s a non-issue for native speakers. Very often when someone who´s learning a language asks you a question about your native tongue, you realize it´s something you´ve never given a second thought to. A Native speaker learns to make this subtle distinctions effortlessly. They just pick them up from their environment.

    I´m also a native English speaker, but I guess I have the benefit of having taught English as a second language for 10 years and part of what I taught was diction. Depending on the student´s level, there comes a time when it´s proper to worry about these distinctions if they´re trying to achieve a certain level of diction.

    I do agree for most people is not worth worrying about a lot. People will understand you either way.
     
  9. juanma Junior Member

    Spain Spanish
    Hola Antonnio,
    yo creo que todo esto se saca también por lógica.

    Land Landed ( observa que es más fácil landid que landt o landd )
    Want Wanted (más fácil wantid que wantt o wantd)

    Wash Washed (más fácil washt que washd)

    Love Loved (más fácil lavd que lavt)
     
  10. zebedee

    zebedee the manamana mod

    Valencia - Spain
    Gt. Britain - English
    Exacto, como he dicho más arriba, depende dónde tienes la lengua al pronunciar el último sonido del verbo en presente. Si tienes la lengua delante, sigue delante y te saldrá un t, si la tienes arriba o más hacia atrás, la mantienes allí y te saldrá un d. Como dice juanma, lo más fácil es lo que prima.
    Cuando pronuncias la "sh" en "wash" tienes la lengua delante: "washt"
    Cuando pronuncias la "v" en "love" tienes la lengua atrás: "lovd"
     
  11. funnydeal Senior Member

    Mexico, D.F.
    Mexico / Español
    Una maestra de inglés me dijo que en los verbos que terminan en "d" o en "t" siempre se debe pronunciar "ed" (id) cuando están en pasado

    accept = accepted
    admit = admitted
    want = wanted

    surround = surrounded
    avoid = avoided
    command = commanded


    De lo contrario sonarían acceptt/acceptd o surroundd/surroundt y que eso no tiene sentido.

    Espero que sí sea ésta una regla
     
  12. rich7 Senior Member

    caracas
    Venezuela español
    It is good to have bumped into this post, especially when I am looking to solve a little puzzle. Regarding the verbs that ends in a consonant preceded by a vowel, case in point "grin" which changes to "grinned" in the past tense or others like pin, stop, fit, etc, why is it that verbs like "open," "enjoy" "visit" won't change into that pattern of doubling the consonant? As it also happens with the ing form in the case of begin, beginning vs open, opening? Does it have to do with the other vowel at the beginning of the word?
     
  13. Agró

    Agró Senior Member

    High Navarre
    Spanish-Navarre
    grin, pin, stop, fit, son monosílabos.
    open, enjoy, visit, son bisílabos.

    La duplicación de la consonante final solo se da en monosílabos que acaban en c+v+c (consonante + vocal + consonante) y en bisílabos agudos que acaban en c+v+c (begin, regret).

    Enjoy no acaba en consonante (-y final es vocal a efectos fonéticos, que es lo importante).
     
  14. duncandhu Senior Member

    Madrid, Spain
    United Kingdom, English
    More or less, each "soft sound" (putting the participle with a "T" sound at the end) has its own equivalent "hard sound" (which gives the participle a "D" sound)

    Soft --> Hard
    T --> D
    P --> B
    C/K (kick) --> G (dog)
    F --> V
    "CH" (church) --> "DG" (judge)
    "SH" --> "GE" (e.g. beige)
    "S" (press) --> "Z" (buzz)
    "th" (think) --> "TH" (bathe)

    Sounds without equivalents:
    M - D
    N - D
    H - D
    L - D
    R - D
    X - T

    Therefore, with varying local dialects etc, pronunciation of the participles can also change. From the list above, I would say this (being British):

    danced = T
    bathed = D
    used = D (unless it was "used to")
    erased = D (for me, it's like "eraze")
    closed = D (same here)
    dress= T
    missed= T
    stayed= D

    Words which end in a vowel, or a consonant that sounds like a vowel ("W", Y) get the "D" ending for their participle.

    Espero haber ayudado
    Saludos
    Duncan
     
  15. rich7 Senior Member

    caracas
    Venezuela español
    Very interesting your explanation, Agró.
     

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