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pronunciation of яя

Discussion in 'Русский (Russian)' started by gentilhom, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. gentilhom

    gentilhom Senior Member

    Girona Espagne
    français
    How does one pronounce -яя at the end of adjectives in unstressed position: like и?

    I take as an example the word :

    замужняя
     
  2. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    It is [ьjа] or even [ьjь], where ь is a reduced (weakened) sound more or less like English ə (later - [leɪtə]).
    I'd recommend you this reference (look post-tonic vowels after soft consonants - заударные гласные после мягких согласных).
     
  3. gentilhom

    gentilhom Senior Member

    Girona Espagne
    français
    Thank you, unfortunately my Russian is still too primitive to enable me to read that article about Russian phonetics.
     
  4. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    It is [ää], where "ä" is a reduced (weakened) sound resembling in quality the English "a" in "bat" but somewhat shorter and less dinstinct, so: "zamužn'ää, s'in'ää, v'is'enn'ää" for «замужняя, синяя, весенняя». Some people (see above) just are to lazy to open the mouth properly ,-) In any case, «замужняя», «замужнее» and «замужние» sound quite distinct.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
  5. gentilhom

    gentilhom Senior Member

    Girona Espagne
    français
    Quite distinct? Oh my pronunciation must be very bad indeed.:)
     
  6. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    Maybe this is peculiarity of the Petersburg pronouncing standard? Moscow standard presumes stronger reduction and weakening of the unstressed vowels. I also cannot hear any difference in these unstressed endings and if listening them pronounced distinctly it sounds to me somewhat unnatural or deliberate, as if dictated by a teacher.
    However, do you really pronounce it like [ää], i.e. without any trace of yot between the vowels?
     
  7. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    You know, since we started discussing this some time ago, I began listening carefully to the Moscow people on the radio and I should say, when they ever pronounce the endings, they do pronounce those umlauted vowels. Indeed, this [ь] is a pretty inadequate description of the actual sound: I don't think that even a less careful speaker pronounces the same [ь] in «веретено» и «замужняя».

    E. g., the latest thing I have listened is this program: http://rus.ruvr.ru/2013_11_02/Glavnoe-dostizhenie-Saakashvili-to-chto-on-ushel-mirno-8022/ Lukyanov has a distinct Moscow chopped flair in his speech, plus he occasionally says «шо» and pronounces a very closed «е» (probably his Swedish background), but these ü's and ä's are quite perceptible: istoriü, vremä, Gruziä since the very beginning.

    Yod may exist, but not necessarily: more often it disappears while leaving this umlauting effect [delaü, novuü, delaä, novaä]. E also gets raised [delait/delaėt, sinėė].
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
  8. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    Umlauting effect? But is there really anything like that? And even if it is there, what is the vocal machinery providing this effect if it is not a vowel after a yotа? At least if we try pronounce замужн'аа or even замужн'ьа, it will evidently differ from what we say in reality.
     
  9. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    Please, listen to Lukyanov's speech in the above link: when he doesn't swallow the endings, he pronounces exactly the sounds I mean.
     
  10. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    I can hear quite distinctly yot in his Грузия and история.
     
  11. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    Well, I can't hear any consonant (may be just a i-glide before the umlauted vowels) but I meant first of all the vowel quality in the endings: they are colored in the way I had described and these are definitely not muted schwa's.
     
  12. learnerr Senior Member

    Russian
    I had also wondered at that. But yes, I am a Petersburger and I think I hear the result of the umlauting effect. And for sure, no yot in this position and many others. For me, there are ten distinct vowels in the Russian inventory. I heard Akunin's speech in his blog, and the only way in which it sounded stilted to me was his clear pronunciation of yots in the endings. On the other hand, maybe it's because it was stilted, as he was making his public addresses.
     
  13. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    To collect more opinions of natives, you may check the words ending on -яя, -ее and so on here.
     
  14. gentilhom

    gentilhom Senior Member

    Girona Espagne
    français
  15. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    Well, of the forms we are discussing here they have only «замужняя» (f), with the final ǝ, and e. g. «синее» (n) with the final ı — as I had written, these are definitely not the sounds I hear and pronounce here. If Maroseika indeed pronounces these forms the way he had mentioned and not just follows some abstract transcription directions (as I strongly suspect), we have here two stages of the language development: a more conservative one with a better preserved vowel quality in the unstressed endings (represented by me) and a more derived one with more slurred vowels represented by Maroseika and that German site. From the practical viewpoint I may suggest that distinguishing between endings is better, especially for a student of the language. Which variant eventually wins is currently impossible to say since the variant I represent is definitely not a declining one spoken by a strange individual or an isolated group. The future will show: hopefully people in the 22nd century will keep checking this forum...
     

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