Pronunciation of -tie

Discussion in 'Nederlands (Dutch)' started by ElAjedrezEsLaVida, May 20, 2013.

  1. ElAjedrezEsLaVida Senior Member

    Manchester, UK
    inglés británico
    I noticed that words ending in -tie are pronounced as if it were -tsie, as if the ts were implied in the t. I have never learnt formally in a textbook about this pronunciation, for example "informatie", "relatie", "sectie" are pronounced as if it were "informatsie", "relatsie", or "sectsie". Is this the proper pronunciation and when does one learn this? Earlier I used to pronounce "informatie" example as how it was spelt, but to me it seems as if the words with -tie as the suffix have an implied -ts diphthong instead of the t.
     
  2. bibibiben

    bibibiben Senior Member

    Amsterdam
    Dutch - Netherlands
    You're right. It's very common to pronounce a word like 'informatie' as if it's written 'informaatsie'. In the Netherlands, at least. It seems to be much less common to do so in Belgium.

    If suffix '-tie' is preceded by a consonant, you won't hear the additional t. 'Sectie' will sound like 'sexy'. One major exception: when the preceding consonant is an n, some people will sound the t in '-tie', others won't. 'Vakantie' could be pronounced 'vakantsie' or 'vakansie', for example.
     
  3. Sjonger Senior Member

    Netherlands
    Dutch - Netherlands
    You can also hear 'polisie', 'petisie', 'transformasie'. It's not very frequent, but I think it's nevertheless correct.
     
  4. NewtonCircus Senior Member

    Singapore
    Dutch (Belgium)
    I think this is one of these Dutch-language oddities that has always puzzled me. Ironically, Bahasa Indonesia has several -tie loanwords from Dutch, which are spelled in the way many native Dutch speakers would pronounce them.

    Dutch: Politie, Sectie
    Bahasa: Polisi, Seksi

    Groetjes Herman
     
  5. Peterdg

    Peterdg Senior Member

    In Belgium you will only hear "vakansie", "polisie", "informasie" "seksie". The "t" in the "-tie" combination is always pronounced as an "s".
     
  6. ElAjedrezEsLaVida Senior Member

    Manchester, UK
    inglés británico
    Does one learn this in school in the Netherlands? I cannot recall having this phenomenom noted; I have only noticed this first from listening to recordings and Dutch television. I only noticed that I must have mispronounced it since I pronounced -tie words as -tee, like "in-for-ma-tee", and I have never heard anyone do this.
     
  7. Syzygy Senior Member

    German
    Another exception are words in -stie, like kwestie or hostie.
    I don't know about Dutch school children, Ajedrez, but I think in Germany words in -tion are so commonly heard even early on in life that the children would sooner have problems with the correct spelling of the words rather than their pronunciation. Is it different with English words ending in -tion?
     
  8. Lopes

    Lopes Senior Member

    Brussels
    Dutch (Amsterdam)
    Well we learn it the other way around: that some -sie sounds are spelt -tie and that we thus shouldn't write vakansie but vakantie​.
     
  9. Kahaani Senior Member

    I've never had a lesson on this subject. I think all Dutch children know the correct spelling is informatie and not informatsie, so paying attention to it isn't needed. I've never heard someone, other than small children, say polisie in the Netherlands. The t may be very soft but plain polisie would sound odd. Vakansie is quite common though.
     
  10. ElAjedrezEsLaVida Senior Member

    Manchester, UK
    inglés británico
    I was educated in English, and can vaguely remember brief mentionings that words ending in -tion were pronounced as "shun", due to some mispronouncing it. This was in primary school, and regardless of whether English was or was not their first language, some, albeit very few, classmates pronounced it as "tyun". For that reason, I was wondering if a brief reminder about pronouncing -tie would be given in Dutch schools. Several times before I knew this, perhaps, some years ago, I pronounced "informatie" literally as spelt, i.e. as -tie instead of -tsie (informatsie). So I probably sounded silly, but no one corrected me. However I wish I had been corrected, since I only knew this -tie = -tsie rule by suspecting it might be a rule since everyone was doing it, and until then I had been pronuncing other words with -tie, such as politie, relatie, etc. as -tie...
     
  11. Syzygy Senior Member

    German
    Here's an old thread about the unexpected (?) pronunciation of the with -tie related suffixes -tionaal/-tioneel among other things if anyone's interested.
     

Share This Page