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pronunciation: patriot, patriotic, patriotism

Discussion in 'English Only' started by katie_here, Jul 21, 2008.

  1. katie_here Senior Member

    England
    England/English
    Another pronouncation question.

    I say Patriotism as in Pat (rhyming with bat, hat, cat).

    I've heard Patriotism rhyming with gate, fate, late.

    How do you say it, and am I in a minority now, because the more American programmes we have, the more I hear the second version and less the first.
     
  2. panjandrum

    panjandrum PongoMod

    Belfast, Ireland
    English-Ireland (top end)
    I say patriot rhyming with gate.
    I say patriotic rhyming with cat.
    I don't think I say patriotism often enough to know which way I pronounce it.

    OED pronunciation for all of them is:
    BE pat- or pate-, AE pate-
     
  3. Arrius

    Arrius Senior Member

    Spain
    English, UK
    I, an elderly Londoner, who always consciously avoids Americanisms unless addressing an American, have always said /peitriotism/ as in Patriotism is not Enough on the Edith Cavell momument, or Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, but I say patriot with a short open A as in cat. Perhaps you are from the Midlands or other part of Britain where the A is generally softened anyway. The Cambridge Learner's Dictionary gives both pronunciations, and Mirriam-Webster /peitriotism/ for the American pronunciation, pointing out that the soft A occurs mainly in Britain.
     
  4. Lexiphile Senior Member

    Germany
    England English
    I think, Katie, we're all in a minority here!
    I (originally from the north of England, but extensively exposed to Americanisms) have always said precisely the opposite to Arrius: Pat-riotism and Pate-riot.
     
  5. gasman Senior Member

    Canada, English
    As one with language roots from both sides of the Atlantic, I still say "pat" for both words.
     
  6. ewie

    ewie Senior Member

    This septic isle!
    NW Englandish English
    I think my versions go: paytriot, pahtriotic, pahtriotism. But don't quote me.
    (I was going to suggest another poll but as I haven't done the statistical analysis for the hedonism one yet, I probably shouldn't bother:eek:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2008
  7. audiolaik

    audiolaik Senior Member

    Poland
    Poland, Polish
    Hello,

    If one looks up the word patriotic in the Longman Pronunciation Dictionary, by J. C. Wells, they will see that the word has been classified as a word of uncertain pronunciation; thus, the author includes the results if a postal opinion poll carried out among a panel of 275 native speakers from throughout Britain. According to the results, 79% voted for patriotic (pat... rhyming with bat, cat), while 21% preferred the other way of pronouncing the word, namely patriotic (pat....rhyming with gate).
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2008
  8. Monkey F B I Senior Member

    Acton, MA
    English - USA
    I say "pate-" for patriot, patriotic, and patriotism.
     
  9. GreenWhiteBlue

    GreenWhiteBlue Senior Member

    New York
    USA - English
    I would think that the long "a" (pate-) would be the older pronunciation, as the word comes from a Latin word that has (in Latin) a long A. While in ancient Rome long A was probably pronounced as "ah", in the 17th and 18th Centuries, when Latinate words were being imported regularly into English, a long A in Latin was pronounced as if it were a long A in English, and thus the Latin word for "father" was said as "pay-ter", and its derivative patria, meaning fatherland, was "pay-tria". The English deriviatives from patria, such as patriot or patriotitism, would thus have inherited this long "A".
     
  10. gasman Senior Member

    Canada, English
    Interesting. When I started Latin classes in '41, we were taught to use the short "a". Just as we were taught to use it for "patriots, etc.. I have trouble relating to aaamo aaamas et al..
     
  11. Broccolicious Senior Member

    Glorious Devonshire
    English - England
    Goodness - it seems we all have our own private minorities!

    I'm from the Westcountry, and would agree with you, Lexiphile - and would add pate-riotic.
     
  12. Loob

    Loob Senior Member

    English UK
    I say patriot with a long 'a' as in gate. I say patriotic with a short 'a' as in cat.

    I say patriotism with both pronunciations.

    I am either flexible or indecisive.
     
  13. nzfauna

    nzfauna Senior Member

    Wellington, New Zealand
    New Zealand, English
    For me:

    Patriot = [PAY-TREE-IT]

    Patriotic = [PAY-TREE-OT-IK]

    Patriotism =[PAY-TREE-AH-TIZ-IM]
     
  14. branchsnapper Junior Member

    English - South England
    I always say "pate" (I'm from East Anglia UK, RP accent). The American Football team is always "pate", I believe?
     

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