provided out with / undertaken out with

Discussion in 'English Only' started by word_up, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. word_up

    word_up Senior Member


    I recently had to read a text, where a native speaker added "out with" to phrases, where it seemed to me strange. I put both of them in the title, as I suppose the "out with" is used in similar manner in them (and not as in the phrasing "out with something, in with something else", whose meaning is clear to me).

    Below are the sentences.

    The training is undertaken out with the firm, provided by its parent organisation at the Activity Centre.

    Training to support a person to be ‘employment ready’, or other pre-employment support, is provided out with the firm by the parent organisation.

    As I understand these stentences, the phrasing "out with" could be replaced with "by" to the same effect.
    However, I am afraid that I may be dead wrong here, as I have never before seen such wording.

    Am I wrong?
    Could you please explain why such phrase is used here? Is it some slang?
  2. Franco-filly Senior Member

    Southern England
    English - Southern England
    It sounds bizarre to me and I think I would have to agree with you that "by" might be a reasonable substitute!
  3. velisarius Senior Member

    British English (Sussex)
    Sometimes used in Scotland, "outwith" is one word and it means "outside", or "beyond" in some cases. Was the native speaker Scottish by any chance? If this is so, then "the training is undertaken outwith the firm " means that the training is not undertaken within the firm itself.
  4. word_up

    word_up Senior Member

    Holy lord! That must be right, since the organization she works for resides in Edinburgh.
    I was thinking it might be something of sorts: outside of the firm but in collaboration with the firm, but it seemed so awkward to me... ;). It is good I asked. Thanks for that precious clarification.

    It was written separately ("out with") but it makes sense as "outside" pretty well in the context.

    Thanks to both of you - from differing answers I can learn more about regional differences ;)
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013
  5. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    English - England
    outwith (preposition) is also used in the English legal profession and legislation.
  6. word_up

    word_up Senior Member

    And in the same meaning? Because no dictionary I looked up showed any other.
    Now that I know it should be written as one word, I suppose a word processing software is responsible for dividing it into "out with" in the sentences I cited.
  7. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    English - England
    Yes, "Consideration of whether the accused had an excuse for speeding is outwith the Road Traffic Act, under which he is charged." i.e. As speeding is an absolute offence under the Road Traffic Act, then no excuse for speeding can be considered when assessing the accused's guilt.
  8. se16teddy

    se16teddy Senior Member

    English - England
    I am not convinced. I found the phrase "outwith the Road Traffic Act" on Google, but only one occurrence, in a post by a person called "scottishdj2". I also searched on "outwith" on, a website listing and publishing UK legislation: there were many results, but each one referred specifically to Scotland in its title (mostly legislation from the Scottish Parliament).
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013

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