Punjabi: Dying or forgotten words

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Qureshpor, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    There are lots of "TheTh" Punjabi words which one hears in perhaps Punjabi films or from the older generation. In Pakistani Punjab, these are invariably substituted with Urdu equivalents. One such Urdu equivalent is "balkih". Possibly, a similar situation exists in the Indian Punjab, where Hindi words are in use for them.

    Without using a dictionary, can Punjabi speakers come up with the TheTh Punjabi word for "balkih", perhaps with its use in Punjabi sentences so that the true sense can be gauged. If this thread is successful, I plan to begin a few more threads on the same lines as this.

    Moderator note: Reopening this thread on a trial basis. For an extended conversations (i.e., one that might go off topic) on a particular, please open a new thread and insert a hyperlink.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  2. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    I've never heard "balkih" in my father's Punjabi. We'd say سگوں ਸਗੋਂ.
     
  3. souminwé Senior Member

    Vancouver, Canada
    North American English, Hindi
    My mother never says "balkih". Come to think about it, I think she uses the above "sagoN" as well (I can't actually speak Punjabi, I just go by what I hear). I think the separate script and education in the language mean words don't get replaced as often as in Pakistani Punjabi.
     
  4. JaiHind Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi
    What has this to do with the title of the thread "Punjabi: Dying or forgotten words"? Why not keep the title of the thread as "Punjabi word for Urdu "balkih" " instead?
     
  5. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank you PG Jii and souminwé Jii for your responses. Here are a couple of lines from Shiv Kumar Batalvi incorporating this word.

    kose kose saahvaaN dii maiN
    karaaN je Takor maa'e
    sagoN saanuuN khaaNR nuuN pave

    کوسے کوسے ساہواں دی میں
    کراں جے ٹکور ماۓ
    سگوں سانوں کھانڑ نوں پوے

    شو کمار بٹالوی

    ਕੋਸੇ ਕੋਸੇ ਸਾਹ੍ਵਾਂ ਦੀ ਮੈਂ
    ਕਰਾਂ ਜੇ ਟਕੋਰ ਮਾਏ
    ਸਗੋਂ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਖਾਣ ਨੂੰ ਪਵੇ

    ਸ਼ਿਵ ਕੁਮਾਰ ਬਟਾਲਵੀ

    "sagoN" here does impart a different meaning to what I had envisaged. Here it seems to mean "still".

    I don't think this has anything to do with script. After all Gurmukhi is not much different from Devanagri script and Indian Punjabi has lots of "learned" words that are also found in Hindi.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  6. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Qureshpor SaaHib, I remember I was astonished at panjabigator SaaHib's answer because in its previous life this thread had been hanging empty for a long period. Somehow I wasn't able to think of any solution. Actually I use sagoN in my speech and have been hearing it as well but not too lavishly. This has made me realize how much I was attached to balkih!

    The usage as you have quoted above is there of course, however the way it is used as well, and I regard it as the primary meaning (may be subjective!), is in the sense of balkih, like in:

    lagdaa ai panjaabii ch ikk na'iiN sagoN do ehojihe lafz hai neN: tusiiN balkih chhadd ke sagoN vii isti3maal kar sakde ho.
     
  7. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I hear "sagoN" meaning "balkih" both by Pakistani and Indian Punjabis but I think it would be fair to say that as far as educated Pakistanis are concerned, "balkih" is far more frequent.

    I had not come across the sense of the word in which Shiv Kumar Batalvi has used. I did find examples from Heer Waris Shah but I could n't understand the verses!!
     
  8. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Might you post the verses so that we can see how "sagon" was used?
     

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