Punjabi-Urdu-Hindi-Persian: Similarity of words with English

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Qureshpor, Apr 4, 2012.

  1. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Only the other day there was mention of words having similarities. I think it started with the Arabic "banaa" (To build/He built) and the conversation moved onto Urdu/Hindi "banaanaa" (and somehow, I think to the fruit "banana"!). We know that the Arabic and Urdu/Hindi would be a pure coincidence. But there is the Arabic ardh (Earth), "kahf" (cave). Surely these can't all be coincidences.

    Back to the subject at hand. I wonder if forum members can up with some not so familiar words from the languages mentioned in the thread which are similar to the words in English. I am of course aware of the Indo-European link. Let me start with a few.

    Punjabi ( A number of Urdu-Hindi words are also Punjabi words)

    val/well

    Urdu/Hindi

    kona/corner
    ghaas/grass
    piilaa/pale
    (baat)chiit/chit-chat
    bulbulaa/bubble
    joR/joint
    ulluu/owl
    saNgiit/song
    madham/medium (?)
    kaaTnaa/cut (Arabic qat3)

    Hindi
    sant/saint

    Persian

    chaanah/chin
    muush/mouse

    I have left out some more obvious words.
     
  2. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    There are many such words, some because of Greek connections, many because of Romance languages. More examples:

    Gnosis / Gnaan / Ganesh (all related to wisdom) - in English from Greek

    chamber / kamraa (room) - in both languages from Old French, and wherein from Latin

    pal / bhraataa (all related to comradeship) - in English from Romany

    An example of a loanword as well:

    chemise / shamiz (the slip that a girl wears) - in English from Old French (wherein from Latin) and in Hindi from English or French, a much later borrowing
     
  3. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    In Hindi as well, mouse could be "mushak".
     
  4. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    Urdu/Hindi:
    muuNchh / moustache
    daant / dent*

    Persian:
    lab / lip, labial
     
  5. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ Thank you, gb.

    Punjabi

    trai/three
    kukkaR/cockeral
    naas/nostril
    miikar/micro (?)

    Persian

    sharm/shame
    abruu/eybrow
    bad/bad
    bihtar/better
    diiv/devil

    Urdu-Hindi

    koylaa/coal
    patthar/peter (petroleum)
    aag/agni (Igneous rocks)
    bail/bull
    saaNp/serpent
    suvraaj/sovereign
    aaTh/eight
    paidal/pedal
    Topi/top (?)
     
  6. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Ahem .. a curious one:

    piss / peshab (urine, urinate)
     
  7. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I often wonder about this word because in Persian "pesh" means "front" and "aab" is "water". Front water!
     
  8. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    In fact, some other numbers, too:
    tri / tri (as in tridev, trinity)
    nine / nau

    And the other variant of eight in Hindi, "asht", looks (or is rather) even closer to "eight".
     
  9. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Technically quite correct, I would say!
     
  10. BP. Senior Member

    Karachi
    Urdu
    You've got corroboration here.
     
  11. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Great minds think alike!!!
     
  12. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole
    band / bind - bound
    saaNp / serpent

    of course, your borrowings:
    thug / thag
    loot / luuT
    cummerbund
    jungle /jangal
    camise/ kamees

    in Jamaica we have even more:
    ganja - gaaNjaa (direct borrowing)
    colly bud - kalii
    punaanii - phunnii, phuniyaa Hindi / nunni Marathi (suprised etymologists haven't figured this one out yet)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  13. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English

    Note that the close word to "bind" in Hindi is "baandh" ("baandhnaa" = to bind); "band" = closed. I don't think though that "baandhnaa" and "to bind" are related.
     
  14. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    "band" is from the Persian verb "bastan" (to tie).

    You will have come across "band-o-bast", no doubt. There does appear to be commonality between our "baandhnaa", Persian "band" and English "bind/bound" in the sense that there is "bnd" in all of them, in this order.
     
  15. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Seems tonyspeed had the right hunch and you're of course right: read here and here.

    It's surprising to me as I always thought "bind" comes from Old English, wherein words are mostly having Germanic origins rather than Norman ones, and it's usually the Norman ones that you can closely identify with Persian or Sanskrit.
     
  16. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    It is a very interesting thread and nice contributions, on a bit lighter note.

    Please do continue with other examples, and let me point out a couple of slips in the meantime:

    As far as I know, a word like ''gnaan'' doesn't exist. I presume that the words given are supposed to be Hindi words, aren't they? The word about which I know it exists in Hindi is 'gyaan', in Marathi 'dñyaan', and continuing the movement roots-wards, in Sanskrit 'jñaana'. All of them are written the same, though!

    You are indisputably right as to the origin of the word in English and there is indeed link between Sanskrit root 'jña' and the Greek 'γνω-/γνο-/γνου', and they are all related to knowledge, not to wisdom.

    A connection of GaNResh to 'jñaana' is apparently misguessed.

    For the origin of kamraa, you can have a look at an existing thread devoted solely to it here. Of course in Romance languages it is derived from Latin, I agree to this extent, but Latin, on its turn, borrowed it from Ancient Greek! Another Greek connection.

    Could you please shed more light what is meant by the slip that a girl wears? I've tried a lot, but I don't get it.
     
  17. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole
    I'm guessing this is a combination of the pronunciation gyaan and the actual Hindi spelling: jnaan . People from other regions such as Gujarat tend to pronounce this differently. I couldn't quite pick it up.
     
  18. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Yes, "gyaan" is pronounced in many regions, including Gujarat, as "gnaan".
     
  19. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    For Ganesh, I always thought it meant ishwar of gaNR, which would mean lord of a tribe, but a well-known European philosopher well versed in Sanskrit, Latin and Greek once told me that there's a connection between gnosis and Ganesh. I will get back here if I am able to know from him about how did he arrive at his conclusions.

    For chemise, see http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chemise
    In French, the word usually means a shirt!
     
  20. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I somehow can't believe this folk etymology. In case you are able to quote the reasoning behind it, do get back !

    As for chemise, I wasn't asking for its definition but I asked what you understood by a slip.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  21. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I wonder if "chemise" is the Urdu (ultimately Arabic) qamiis. The words are quite similar, as far as I can tell.
     
  22. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    Urdu/Hindi

    lock / laakh (red material melted to seal)
    mud / maTTii, miTTii
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  23. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    It's not clear what do you mean here. "Gan" (retroflex n) does mean folk, hence Ganesh according to most opinions.

    I mean what the word means; you could have again looked in a dictionary. Anyway, to quote from Webster's again, a slip is "an undergarment made in dress length and usually having shoulder straps", which is often the same as the English (and French) "chemise" ("a woman's one-piece undergarment") as well as "shamiiz" in Hindi.
    Of course, "chemise" in French usually means a shirt, and we have the related "kamiiz" in Hindi for shirt.
     
  24. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Hindi

    Widow/Widower (vidhvaa/vidhhur)
     
  25. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    To me, there is an extraordinary similarity between चीन्हना (chiinhnaa = to know, to distinguish) and the German verb "kennen/können" (to know), the latter giving the English "know" (but in English pronunciation, "k" becomes silent).
     
  26. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Well, können means 'can'.
     
  27. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Also means "to be able to", but also often means "knowing" (hence the meaning of "can" as well). I would advise you to look into dictionaries before posting your comments, as this is not the first time that you have said something without looking there.
    For your benefit, http://www.wordreference.com/deen/können
     
  28. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
     
  29. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu

    Your advice is redundant. I speak German fluently so there is no need for me to look this word up. ''to be able to'', ''can'' is the primary meaning. ''to be able to'' and ''can'' are interchangeable. Only from the context you are able to understand when this word means ''to have a practical understanding of something'' (Hindi: mujhe ... aataa hai). It is not the kind of knowing you think which is related to ''to know''.
     
  30. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    In that case, it is you who should reread what "folk etymology" means, for the word Ganesh linked to gnaan is not a popular or folk thing: the popularly known etymology is "gan + ish" naturally, since both "gan" and "ish" are widely used words in themselves. It was a noted European philosopher and linguist who told me that gnosis and Ganesh are linked; one European philosopher's opinions hardly make a people!
     
  31. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Your speaking German fluently or not doesn't change an iota of what all the word means; I also speak German, by the way. You are welcome to live in your own world; my contribution was for the thread's benefit.
     
  32. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Leave it. It was a figurative expression.

    As I said previously, please do get back in case you are able to tell us something more about it, it sounds at least intriguing (I mean it).
     
  33. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    beat / piiT
    tobacco / tambaakuu
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  34. lcfatima Senior Member

    In a teapot
    English USA
    fairy/pari
     
  35. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    luuT- loot
     
  36. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Persian

    girift/grip
     
  37. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I am not sure marrish SaaHib if luuT/loot would qualify because this is a relatively recent borrowing into English from the colonial days whereas other words we have been talking about in this thread are linked due through family relationships.
     
  38. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    gout/gaThiyaa
    this/is
    camphor/kapuur
    cane/gannaa
    (to) champ [also "to chew"]/chabaa(naa)
    (to) chant/gaa(naa)
    charisma/karishmaa (in English from GreeK; modern English meaning different from Greek and Hindi/Urdu meanings)
     
  39. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I could be wrong but these do appear somewhat far fetched.

    "karishmah" from the original Persian at least in Urdu does not share the meaning of "charisma", the former having meanings such as wonder and miracle etc. In Urdu, "camphor" is mainly "kaafuur", but it appears that "kaapuur" also exists.
     
  40. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    "ch"/"k" in English/French or Greek are often clues of a corresponding cognate word with "g" instead in Sanskrit, hence "chant" (especially when you consider the French form, where "t" is not pronounced) and "gaa" do not look to me far at all. You might also like to read up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_in_religion#Sanskrit_term and http://latvian-sanskrit-cognates.blogspot.fr/ (of course the latter is about Latvian, thus outside of the immediate scope of this thread).

    Of course, as I myself said, charisma has got a new meaning in English, but it did get into English through Greek "kharisma", where the word means divine gift, a meaning close to "miracle". As you can read at http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=charisma&allowed_in_frame=0 , the earlier sense in English was also that of something divine, and it was only by 1959 that the personal charm-related sense came into being in English.

    I am sorry that I forgot to specify the language in my earlier post; my terms were from Hindi and "kapuur" is the word used for camphor in Hindi.
     
  41. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    As for the closeness between that/this/the and the Sanskrit "sa" (and Hindi "is/us"), I think it's a closeness that not only is quite high in degree but is also surprising, considering that these are some of the most commonly used words. You could read http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=the&allowed_in_frame=0 and http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.0:1:2255.platts
    From the Latvian page mentioned above, you could also see the similarity between the Hindi-Sanskrit "tadaa" and English "then". And that between Hindi "maanas" and English "man"; also Hindi "viir" (brave) and "virile". Also, Hindi-Sanskrit "yog" and English "yoke".
    Also, Hindi "paad" (foot) and English "pedal".
     
  42. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Hindi:
    "sant" = saint
     
  43. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    It seems it's been ages since post 1!:)
     
  44. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Oh, had completely missed seeing that! Thanks for pointing out :)
     
  45. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
  46. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Hindi/Urdu:

    "behtar" (बेहतर) / better

    Hindi:

    "bad" (बद) / bad
    "yauvan" (यौवन) / youth, juvenile (esp. if you read "j" as [j], not [dj])
     
  47. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Hindi:

    galaa / gullet
    khaaT / cot
    kaalimaa / calumny
    koot [estimate of cost] / cost
    jan / gent [sense: people, not gentleman]
    prajanan / progeny
    jhankaD / junk
    jhak / joke
    koN / corner
    chakr / circle
    antr / entrails
    aapt [reliable] / apt
    aart / hurt
    aagam / augment
    dubvaa / doubt
    kaant [husband] / count
    gundaa / goon
    chitr / chit
     
  48. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Hindi:

    duvidhaa [dilemma] / dubious
     
  49. hindiurdu Senior Member

    Hindi-Urdu, Punjabi, Kashmiri
    Some more exotic ones -

    pati (lord, husband, eg karorpati) - despot, potent (denotes power)
    raja (king) - regis, regina, regime
    maha - mega, major
    koonj (Punjabi, from Skt kraunch) - crane
    bhai/bhrah (praah)/biradar (Skt bhrata(r)) - brother
    duhita (H) - duhitr (Skt) - doxtar (P) - daughter (E)
    hardik (concerning the heart) - cardiac
    dvaar - dar - door
    dev - deity, divine
    jwala - glow
    antar (between, e.g. antar-rashtreey) - inter (inter-national)
    vakya (sentence, from Skt vak - speech) - vocal
    paar (across, away) - far
    yauvan - javaan - young
    jan (person or being) - jaan (life) - gene (generate, genetic)
    manush(ya) - man
    sam/ham (equal) - same
    aankh (eye, from skt aksh) - ocular (btw chakshu/chashm between Skt and Pers)
    daant/dand - dental
    gaae/gau - cow
    kauaa - crow
    kriti - create
    chaand (moon < radiant) - candle
    saur - solar
    vidhva - widow
    vahan - vehicle, wagon
    krodh - wrath
    vela (hey, here it is again - time) - while
    safed - shwet - white
    dhruv (pole/fixed) - true
    stambh (pillar or stalk) - stem
    stabdh (stalled, rigid) - stop, stopped
    katha - quote, quoth
    ullu - owl
    path - path (road, way)
    upar (above) - over
    munh - mukh - mouth
    kat - cut
    bhaaskar (name, = sun) - bask
    laghu (small, light) - light
    guru (big) - gravity, gravitas (H word for gravity is gurutv)
    lagna, lagan (to attach with) - lock
    ghaas - grass
    shaalaa (e.g. paathshaalaa) - hall
    usha (dawn) - east
    dambh (pretence, deceit) - dupe
    bharjaai (Punjabi, from skt bharjya) - bhaarya (H) - bride
    kala (black) - kohl, coal
    kapi (Sanskrit, Hindi-Urdu, Persian have identical word; cf Hanuman = Kapiish) - Ape
    bhau (Punjabi, HU for brow, naak-bhau sikodna = disgust; from Skt bhru) - brow
    bhu/bhoot (Sanskrit) = bood (Persian) - be (english) - this word in HU has come to mean 'ghost'!
    bhikk (Punj) - bheekh (HU) - beg
    bhadra (Skt, H - refined) - behtar - better

    These are all legit cognates with common ancestors afaik. Probably thousands that we could find.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  50. languageworld New Member

    English, Hindi, Punjabi, Bengali
    Hi,
    I have found this topic very interesting and have been intrigued by the similarity in languages we normally think of being so different.
    I have a question to this forum:
    Is there some linkage between the urdu word 'Kabaliyat' and the English word 'Capability'?
    Thanks.
     

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