Qué Dios le/la bendiga

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by deziz, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. deziz Junior Member

    Japanese
    Hola, amigos.
    I've seen quite a few discussions on:
    Qué diós te bendiga and Qué diós les/los bendiga. (although I'm still not clear why both 'les' (indirect object pronoun) and 'los' (direct object pronoun) are used ...)
    But I need this expression to say to someone I talk with 'usted' (singular) form.
    In that case, what can be the pronoun following 'Diós´?
    I think my Colombian friend taught me, ´Qué Dió la bendiga´ for each of us.
    Is it widely accepted?
    If so, are we supposed to say to a man, ´Qué Dió le bendiga'? Or what?
    Thank you for your reply in advance.
     
  2. aztlaniano

    aztlaniano Senior Member

    Lavapiestán, Madrid
    English (Aztlán, US sector)
    The meaning of the phrase is (May) God bless you.
    If you are asking about the use of "le" as a direct object, that is a long story and there are many, many threads on it already. Look under "le", "leismo", or "lo".
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2009
  3. Nopertenezco

    Nopertenezco Senior Member

    Inglés
    Que díos le bendiga god bless you(vd)
     
  4. Mirlo

    Mirlo Senior Member

    Missouri
    Castellano, Panamá/ USA
    Que Dios lo bendiga.
     
  5. deziz Junior Member

    Japanese
    Thank you, amigos.
    I know the meaning, "(May) God bless you".
    But what I would like to know is:
    whether you would use 'le' and 'la' for 'usted' as in 'Qué Diós le (la) bendiga'.
    The other threads I've seen were discussing 'los' and 'les' (for a group of people, 'ustedes') but not discussing 'usted' as formal 'you' singular.
    I hope this communicates better...
     
  6. swiftini Senior Member

    Heredia, Costa Rica
    US English/Costa Rican Spanish
    I also suggest searching other threads on leísmo. However, basically the following is a brief answer:

    In my country, as in many, we use "Que Dios le bendiga", which is not grammatically correct. The misuse of le is called leísmo. It is quite common in many spanish speaking regions as are its opposites, loísmo and laísmo The one doing the blessing here is God, and the person being blessed is you (usted). Therefore the direct object is usted. So the correct phrase is:

    Que Dios La/Lo Bendiga ( La/lo are the direct pronouns for transitive verbs).

    Le should really only be used for indirect objects as in.

    Le dio el dinero a Fabio (here Fabio is the money is the direct object and Fabio is
    the indirect object of the verb dar)

    I hope this helps.

    Saludos
     
  7. PACOALADROQUE Senior Member

    El Puerto de Santa María (CÁDIZ-ESPAÑA)
    ESPAÑOL (CARTAGENA-ESPAÑA)
  8. javialacarga Senior Member

    Spanish - Spain
    "Dada la gran extensión en el uso de los hablantes cultos de ciertas zonas de España de la forma le cuando el referente es un hombre, se admite, únicamente para el masculino singular, el uso de le en función de complemento directo de persona: ¿Has visto a Jorge? Sí, le vi ayer en el parque"

    Admitirse, se admite. O sea que se puede decir (aunque en teoría no se deba) "Dios le bendiga".
     
  9. deziz Junior Member

    Japanese
    ¡Gracias, mis amigos!
    So overall, although 'lo' and 'la' are grammatically correct,
    'le' is often said by quite a few native speakers. Is that correct?
    I tried reading the articles about 'loismo', 'loismo' and 'laismo' although
    my Spanish is still really limited.
    I've realized this is a quite deep stuff, isn't it?
    Thank you all! I do appreciate all of your comments!
     
  10. aztlaniano

    aztlaniano Senior Member

    Lavapiestán, Madrid
    English (Aztlán, US sector)
    Yes, and the use of "le" is especially prevalent in Spain and it is allowed by the Real Academia Española. So it is not officially incorrect.
     
  11. swiftini Senior Member

    Heredia, Costa Rica
    US English/Costa Rican Spanish
    That is correct. In fact, le is used so often that it is even considered admissable by some language authorities. I most point out, however, that the supreme authority on these matters is the Royal Spanish Academy (RAE). Interestingly enough, many of the people most given to the misuse of le hail from various regions of Spain. This incorrect usage was adopted by Latin Americans from their Spanish forebearers.
     
  12. JB

    JB Senior Member

    Santa Monica, CA, EEUU
    English (AE)
    Yes, bascially use "lo" for a man and "la" for a woman, or "le" for anyone, in normal conversation just about anywhere, except that if you are writing a Ph.D. Dissertation or an application to University Graduate School, then you need to find out that particular school/country prefers for very formal writing.

    Next time you ask a question of this sort, please provide more context, to get the best possible, accurate and concise answer for your needs. Please read the links below. Thanks
    Sobre Contexto
    About Context

    P.S. The only thing that is consistent is "te" for informal usage(even in Argentina, I think) but you did specify "formal" in your question.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2009
  13. deziz Junior Member

    Japanese
    aztlaniano & swiftini,
    Thank you so much for your follow-up.
    Your comments are so clear to me (swiftini, your previous explanation was really great, I should have said earlier!).

    Thank you, Nopertenezco, Mirlo, PACOALADROQUE, and javialacarga!
    All of your inputs are valuable:
    I appreciate your explanation in Spanish for my learning;
    and knowing RAE is another big thing for my Spanish-learning.

    Saludos!
     
  14. deziz Junior Member

    Japanese
    jbruceismay,

    Thanks for your easy-to-understand explanation and the links!
     
  15. stucky101 New Member

    German
    Up until today I agreed with the fact that "le" can be used in some cases as a DOP eventhough it is not officially a DOP.
    Then in today's Spanish class I saw this DOP table.

    C. Direct Object Pronouns

    me - me
    te - you(fam)
    le - him; you(formal m.)
    la - her; it (f); you (formal f.)
    lo - it (m. and neuter)
    etc...

    Then there is a note on the bottom saying:

    "Many Spanish-speaking people, particularly in Spanish America, prefer to use lo instead of le for him,you (formal), but only the le form is used in this text."

    This is an old text book from 1974 called "Spanish - Third Edition" by Laurel H. Turk and Aurelio M. Espinosa, Jr.

    So according to this "le" is a proper DOP and must be used for single male persons.
    Using "lo" instead is accepted but not really correct.
    This is throwing me way off since thought the opposite was true. I had understood that "le" is not and will never be a true DOP but is accepted to be used as such even by the Academy.
    However, to me there is a difference between a real DOP le and an accepted one.
    I still have not found the one "true" DOP table to see whether it includes "le" or not.
    Up until now I had never seen one that does and suddenly I have one that actually dictates the use of le as a DOP.

    Does anybody have a most current, official version of the table above ?
     
  16. deziz Junior Member

    Japanese
    Gracias, stucky101.
    It's been quite a while since I posted my initial inquiry.
    Since then, I've got only one Colombian lady saying "Diós la bendiga",
    otherwise I've aways heard ""Diós le bendiga" from Hispanic people.
    Anyway, thanks for your input.
     
  17. Fer BA

    Fer BA Senior Member

    Buenos Aires
    Castellano de Buenos Aires
    Deziz:

    le bendiga, used for usted in basically all Spanish-speaking area.
    la,le,lo pleae, checked the DPD articles recommended to you before.

    Stucky:

    Yes, there is.

     
  18. caniho Senior Member

    Andalusian Spanish
    I think that in Spain most people would say 'que Dios la bendiga' if that was a common sentence, which it isn't. I say that because leísmo de cortesía is very rare in Spain in the case of women.
     
  19. CaterinaMicaela*8 New Member

    English - United States
    i tried to read most of the posted comments, and I need to refresh my memory on some of the older rationales for
    le/les ~
    lo/la ~
    los/las ~
    The way I remember y Professor explained the variance to a group of very confused College Freshmen
    In 1986, I received my Bachelor of Arts Degree in Spanish and French.
    I taught Spanish Native Speakers and Spanish 1-4 for many years, yet I never tire of learning the varied slangs and word usage in various regions of the world.
    Comparatively, as a Native Texan with a deeply rooted French background, as in my Grandfather at eight years of age was forced to begin his journey from Canada to where he would begin his new life that has now produced Five Generations of "Ragin' Cajuns."
    We're getting closer to beginning the
    Sixth Generation.
    Any person who has visited both of these fine states will agree; they're the antithesis of one other.
     
  20. CaterinaMicaela*8 New Member

    English - United States
     
  21. Cenzontle

    Cenzontle Senior Member

    English, U.S.
    I admire your persistence, deziz, in learning the details.
    Here is another detail: You'll notice that all the native-speakers and others spelled the initial "Que" without an accent mark.
    This kind of "que" is sometimes called a conjunction, sometimes a "complementizer", and it serves to introduce a subordinate clause.
    In a sentence like yours, there is an implied verb, like "Espero que Dios te bendiga" or "Deseo que Dios te bendiga".
    Meanwhile, "Qué" with an accent mark is the interrogative "What...?"
     

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