Que esos momentos sean registrados (subjuntivo en inglés)

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by Zimone, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. Zimone Senior Member

    Chile - español
    Hola! ¿Cómo se forma el subjuntivo en ingés? Según sé (o creo saber) se consigue con el infinitivo del verbo, entonces, ¿estaría bien esta traducción?

    1. Le he tomado varias fotografías, de modo que esos momentos sean registrados, y (yo) pueda acceder a ellos siempre que quiera.

    I have taken several photographies of my daughter, so that these moments be registered, and I can access to them every time I want to.


    En esta otra, sin embargo, no me suena correcto usar el infinitivo, y he preferido conjugarlo, aunque mi única razón es el oido. ¿Está bien?

    2. Me encanta fotografiar a mi hija, para que quede un registro de cada momento de su vida, y (yo) pueda acceder a ellos siempre que quiera.

    I love to photography my daughter, so that a register of every moment of her life remains, and I can access to them every time I want to.


    ¡Gracias de antemano! :)
     
  2. pantera89 Junior Member

    North Carolina, USA
    United States- English
    Hola Zimone,

    No puedo explicar el subjuntivo en inglés, porque no lo entiendo bién, pero puede corregir sus frases.

    1. these moments are registered. Según un conjugator, se forma el subjuntivo de "to be" así I be, you be, he be, etc., pero yo jamás he oído esto. No estoy seguro que se use el subjuntivo en inglés aquí.

    2. correcto

    Quizá una person que sabe más de la gramática inglesa te puede explicar el subjuntivo en inglés.
     
  3. Jeromed Banned

    USA, English
    There's not a one-to-one correspondence between constructions that require the subjunctive mood in Spanish and English.

    Your two English sentences do not require the subjunctive, so the verbs should go in the indicative.
     
  4. TarisWerewolf Senior Member

    Kanadassa
    Canada (English)
    The subjunctive mood in English is all but extinct. It's used in a few phrases such as "If I were rich...", "I wish it were summer.", etc... but I can't think of any other verbs besides "to be" that are used in the subjunctive. Most subjunctives are identical to indicatives, or if they do exist, are considered somewhat old-fashioned. I know I don't hear the subjunctive in English nearly as much as I did when I studied Spanish, Italian or French.
     
  5. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    En inglés existen dos tiempos simples de subjuntivo, el presente (present subjunctive) y el pasado (past subjunctive). Corresponden más o menos al presente y al imperfecto de subjunctivo españoles, aunque como ve no siempre es tan simple así.

    Sin embargo:

    • el presente siempre es igual al bare infinitive (to speak :arrow: that I speak), así que no es necesario memorizarlo.
    • el pasado es igual al pasado de indicativo (simple past) para todos los verbos excepto to be, cuyo past subjunctive es were en todas las personas.

    Creo que esa frase es correcta, pero a muchas personas les suena anticuada.
     
  6. jester.

    jester. Senior Member

    Aachen, Germany
    Germany -> German
    I've heard sentences like "You asked that the budget for *whatever* not be cut in half.". That means that "to ask that" requires the subjunctive. Unfortunately I cannot provide an exhaustive list (or anything close to it) of verbs which require the subjunctive in English.
     
  7. Maximus07

    Maximus07 Senior Member

    Northern California
    English-U.S.A.
    Como dijo Teris el subjuntivo en ingles casi ya no existe. Muchas veces cuando hablamos en ingles no decimos el subjuntivo. (Mis correcciones estarán en mayúsculas)

    1. Le he tomado varias fotografías, de modo que esos momentos sean registrados, y (yo) pueda acceder a ellos siempre que quiera.

    I have taken several PHOTOGRAPHS of my daughter, so that these moments CAN be registered, and I can HAVE access to them every time I want to
    En esta otra, sin embargo, no me suena correcto usar el infinitivo, y he preferido conjugarlo, aunque mi única razón es el oído. ¿Está bien?

    2. Me encanta fotografiar a mi hija, para que quede un registro de cada momento de su vida, y (yo) pueda acceder a ellos siempre que quiera
    I love to PHOTOGRAPH my daughter, so that a register of every moment of her life remains, and I can access to them every time I want to.

    No he hecho nada con las palabras con “register” Nunca he oído esta antes en ingles hablando de photos. Yo diría/ escribiría “Can be saved electronically” para el numero uno y numero dos algo como, “hard copy/ digital copy” y “remains” suena bien a mi
     
  8. Jeromed Banned

    USA, English
    No es tan cierto lo que dices. Lo que sucede es que, en muchos casos, la forma del verbo en subjuntivo es igual a la de indicativo y por eso no la notamos.
     
  9. carlostoledano Junior Member

    español
    Hola a todos, estaba leyendo este hilo porque me ha surgido la misma duda. Según entiendo:

    - El presente de subjuntivo lo solemos traducir por el 'present tense'. Por ejemplo, 'Que ella esté' --> She is
    - El pretérito imperfecto de subjuntivo lo solemos traducir por el 'past tense'. Por ejemplo 'Si ella estuviera/estuviese'--> If she were
    - ¿Cuándo utilizamos el infinitivo sin 'to'?,
    - ¿Es correcta la frase? I have taken several photographs of my daughter, so that these moments be registered, o necesita el modal 'can'?

    Gracias a todos.
    Saludoss
     
  10. echinocereus Senior Member

    English United States
    Hi, Zimone,

    No, our subjunctive is not extinct. It is, however, used in fewer situations than in Spanish and I imagine that your grammar book will list our subjunctive “triggers.”

    Yes, our present subjunctive looks like an infinitive. Some of our subjunctive uses are obvious and some are more subtle. Examples of the “obvious” subjunctives:

    1) Use of “be” as the main verb in a clause – “I insist that they be here on time.”

    2) Use of present tense 3rd singular with no “s” – “I demand that he tell the truth.”

    3) Use of “were” in contrary-to-fact “if” clause – “If I were a millionaire... “

    Sometimes we use modal auxiliaries such as may, might and should to indicate situations of “unreality.” Examples:

    It is possible that it may rain tomorrow. (Es posible que llueva mañana.)
    It was possible that it might rain the next day. (Era posible que lloviera al día siguiente.)
    It is marvelous that he should have such an opportunity. (Es maravilloso que él tenga tal oportunidad.)

    Un saludo. :)

     
  11. Biffo Senior Member

    England
    English - England
    There are articles to be found online by searching for English subjunctive, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_subjunctive
    It is impossible to translate the subjunctive because English subjunctive and Spanish subjunctive are used under different circumstances.

    Present subjunctive examples

    The present subjunctive is very easy to form. We use the bare infinitive.

    They insist that I be ready on time.
    They insist that you be ready on time.
    They insist that he/she/it be ready on time.
    They insist that we be ready on time.
    They insist that you be ready on time.
    They insist that they be ready on time.

    Also
    They insisted that I be ready on time. They will insist that I be ready on time.


    It is essential that I run in the next marathon.
    It is essential that you run in the next marathon.
    It is essential that he/she/it run in the next marathon.
    It is essential that we run in the next marathon.
    It is essential that you run in the next marathon.
    It is essential that they run in the next marathon.


    Past subjunctive examples

    If I were king I would rule well.
    If you were king you would rule well.
    If he were king he would rule well.
    If we were kings we would rule well.
    If you were kings you would rule well.
    If they were kings they would rule well.

    Were I twenty again I would live my life differently.
    Were you twenty again you would live your life differently.
    Were he/she twenty again he/she would live his/her life differently.
    etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  12. nwon Senior Member

    Northwestern Ontario
    Inglés canadiense
    I used the subjunctive a few days ago recommending that somebody do ​ something. Ever since I have been learning Spanish, I notice such instances way more often that I would have thought.
     
  13. juan2937 Senior Member

    Spanish
    Verbs and expressions followed by the subjunctive :

    Verbs Expressions
    demand (that) It is important (that)
    Insist (that) It is essential (that)
    request (that) It is necessary (that)
    ask (that) It is vital (that)
    suggest (that) It is imperative (that)
    Recommend (that)
    advise (that)
    propose (that)

    The present Infinitive is the bare infinitive without 's' in the third person

    I be, you be, he, she, it be, we be, you be, they be.

    The imperfect past Subjunctive
    I were
    You were
    He, she, it were
    We were
    You were
    They were

    The conditional 2 y 3 use it in the PROTASIS. (English)

    Haber (impersonal) there to be

    Haya There be (third person) Present Subjunctive

    Indicative mood.

    Hubo There were
    Había There were
    Habrá There will be
    Habría There would be
    Hubiera There were
     
  14. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    Yes folks, the English subjunctive is still alive and kicking! Apart from the excellent examples given above,there are also many idiomatic phrases (although admittedly quite old) that contain the subjunctive. It's just that we don't stop to analyse them. For example;

    Come what may...
    If need/s be...
    Long live the queen!
    Far be it from me...
    If (the) truth be told...

    Here are a few that just occurred to me. Perhaps other posters can add to the list.

    Watch out for them!
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  15. mal67 Senior Member

    Lusaka
    US - English
    Just to clarify (for Spanish speakers learning English) Biffo's excellent explanation and examples, the term "past subjunctive" as used here refers only* to counter-factual statements. (If I were a shark, I would swim in the sea.)

    We use the present subjunctive for a (non-counter-factual) situation that is framed in the past - e.g.:
    It was essential that she run in the next marathon.


    *At least, I can't think of any other usage. Those who can, please correct me! (Never say never, and all that.)
     
  16. nwon Senior Member

    Northwestern Ontario
    Inglés canadiense
    Me parece una explicación perfecto, mal67.
     
  17. Biffo Senior Member

    England
    English - England
    I disagree with this statement. I gave a couple of examples in #11, i.e.

    This is confirmed here
    The form is called the present subjunctive because it resembles the present indicative in form, not because it need refer to the present time. In fact this form can equally well be used in sentences referring to past, future or hypothetical time (the time frame is normally expressed in the verb of the main clause).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_subjunctive
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  18. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    Are you saying that the present subjunctive is ONLY used for a (non-counter-factual) situation that is framed in the past?

    Because that's actually not the case if you look at examples such as the ones I mention.
    Come what may - pase lo que pase (refers to the future).
    Long live the queen! - ¡viva la reina! (Larga vida a la reina) (refers to the future).

    Also, the tense in your example could be changed and it would still take the present subjunctive.

    It was essential that she run in the next marathon (original sentence).
    It could have been essential that she run...
    It is essential that she run...
    It would be essential that she run...
    It will be essential that she run..

    Also, I think the term "non-counter-factual" might be a bit confusing to students of English as it involves an unnecessary double negative. Maybe "plausible" or possible" would do as an alternative.
     
  19. Forero Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA English
    Most of these verbs and expressions work with a to infinitive (or a for ... to infinitive) too:

    It is necessary for him to eat. = It is necessary that he eat.

    Also, I have added *s to mark verbs and expressions that can be followed by indicative, with a different meaning than with subjunctive.

    For example, "I insist that he is fed" means essentially that I believe he is indeed fed and I will insist on this fact, whereas "I insist that he be fed" means roughly that I very much want him to be fed and I will insist on getting it done.
    We do not use the past subjunctive with the verbs and expressions in juan2937's list, but there are some contexts in English in which past subjunctive works as a past tense version of present subjunctive. I don't think the following accounts for all such contexts, but a couple of centuries ago, subjunctive was used after though, if, and whether, and in places where if or whether was implied but not expressed, and this kind of subjunctive does have two tenses and sometimes turns up even in 21st century English:

    We will not go tomorrow even though he be found before nightfall today.
    They said they would not go the next day even though he were found before nightfall that same day.

    If truth be told, they will have to come soon.
    I said that if truth were told, they would have to come soon.

    It matters not to me whether he be alive or whether he be dead.
    He said it mattered not to him whether Jack were alive or dead.

    Truth be told, they will have to come soon.
    I said that, truth were told, they would have to come soon.

    Be he alive, or be he dead, I'll grind his bones to make my bread. [from "Jack and the Beanstalk"]
    The giant said that, were Jack alive or dead, he would grind his bones for bread.

    This is an unusual, or old fashioned, use of present subjunctive, and generally at odds with Spanish, which does not even allow present subjunctive after si.
     
  20. jjcc Senior Member

    México
    Spanish - México
    Hello everybody!

    Is the following sentence correct?

    It is important that I am on time


    Thanks!
     
  21. Forero Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA English
    Es una frase gramática. ¿Qué quieres que diga?
     
  22. jjcc Senior Member

    México
    Spanish - México
    Hola Forero,

    Como estaban haciendo preguntas del subjuntivo en inglés, quería saber si es correcto decir (o ambas son correctas)

    It is important that I am on time "o" It is important that I be on time

    Una discupa por no ser clara :)

    Saludos


     
  23. Biffo Senior Member

    England
    English - England
    It is important that I am on time. [This expresses a habitual action (or a just completed arrival) and states that it is important. It is an unusual sentence in my experience.]
    It is important that I be on time. [This uses the subjunctive and refers to an appointment that is to happen in the near future.]

    A more usual phrase would be: It is important for me to be on time.

    We need context to know precisely what you mean.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  24. mal67 Senior Member

    Lusaka
    US - English
    Sorry, I did not express myself clearly. I certainly did not mean to say that the present subjunctive should be used only when referring to the past; of course it is used for the present and future as well.

    Rather, I was trying to clarify that, despite its name, the "past subjunctive" should be reserved for counter-factual statements and it is the present subjunctive that should be used for statements framed in the past.

    Yeah, I know - I hesitated a bit with that usage. But possible and plausible aren't exactly the opposite of counter factual, so....

    as I said, never say never and all that!
     
  25. Vicario Senior Member

    London UK
    UK English
    Yes. Si dijeras 'that I be...' sonaría rarísimo.
     
  26. juan2937 Senior Member

    Spanish
     
  27. carlostoledano Junior Member

    español
    Thank you so much Biffo for your great explanation.
    To summarize:
    - Present subjuntive --> We must use the bare infinitive
    - Past subjuntive --> We must use past simple for all person
    Is it correct?

    Thank you again.
    Best regards.

    PS: Please do not hesitate to correct me if you find any mistakes in my writings. Thanks!!




     

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