Quiero saber con quién puedo ir a Londres

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by deco28, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. deco28 New Member

    Madrid
    Spanish (Spain)
    Quiero traducir una frase como esta: Quiero saber con quién puedo ir a Londres.

    Se me ocurren estas:

    I want to know who I can go to London with.
    I want to know whom I can go to London with.
    I want to know with whom I can go to London.

    ¿Cuál sería la correcta?

    Muchísimas gracias / Thank you very much!!
     
  2. suchard

    suchard Junior Member

    argentina
    español
    I want to know who I can go to London with ?
     
  3. kayokid

    kayokid Senior Member

    Chicago
    English, USA
    Hello deco28 and welcome to the forum!

    In my opinion all are "correct"...

    ... who I can... This is the normal AE version. ("Who" is in the wrong case.)
    ... whom I can... This has corrected the case but now you have a sentence ending in a preposition...
    ... with whom I can... This is the "grammatically" correct version (according to purists...)
     
  4. deco28 New Member

    Madrid
    Spanish (Spain)
    Thank you very much to both of you.

    Then, I assume that the first sentence, "I want to know who I can go to London with", is typical in spoken language but not grammatically correct. Is that right?

    I that case, the las version, "
    I want to know with whom I can go to London", would be the best one, but if I'm not wrong, nowadays no one says the word "whom" when speaking.
     
  5. kayokid

    kayokid Senior Member

    Chicago
    English, USA
     
  6. Archilochus Senior Member

    New Mexico
    American English
    "Then, I assume that the first sentence, "I want to know who I can go to London with", is typical in spoken language but not grammatically correct. Is that right?"

    No. Forget about that "not ending a sentence with a preposition" stuff. As Winston Churchill put it (about the so-called rule), "That's not the kind of nonsense I will up with put."
     
  7. deco28 New Member

    Madrid
    Spanish (Spain)
    Hi Archilochus. I don't understand what you mean. Is the first sentence "I want to know who I can go to London with" right then? I think, as far as I've read, that WHO is not right here because it should be WHOM. So my real question is if both 2) and 3) are right and which is preferable:

    I want to know whom I can go to London with.
    I want to know with whom I can go to London.
     
  8. Archilochus Senior Member

    New Mexico
    American English
    Is the first sentence "I want to know who I can go to London with" right then?

    Sorry, I think I misunderstood what the question was. Well, strictly speaking, 'whom' is the correct word here. However, as was said, you will hear, in the vast, vast majority of cases, 'who I can go to London with'. As someone said upthread, the use of 'whom' is formal. (But, in fact, I think you would see the "who I can...with" construction in written English more often that the 'whom' construction. 'whom' is on its way to that great graveyard of dead words in English, I believe.)

    Sorry about that "preposition at the end of a sentence" thing. That "rule", don't end a sentence with a preposition, sets my teeth on edge. As for the two sentences, as far as I'm concerned they are both OK. I do prefer the first, though. The second sounds quite forced to me.
     
  9. gengo

    gengo Senior Member

    "Correct" is often a relative matter. Some would say that number 1 is incorrect, but others would say that number 3 is incorrect because it sounds too formal and stiff. As always, context is king, but I agree that number 1 is by far the most common form in modern English, both written and spoken.
     
  10. RicardoElAbogado Senior Member

    SF Bay Area, California
    American English
    Not quite right. Although frequently attributed to Winston Churchill (without any firm evidence that he actually wrote that) and quoted in various ways, the most common formulation is:

    Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.​

    IMO, this formulation is a more effective at making fun of the "rule" that prepositions can't appear at the end of a sentence (at least to native English-speakers; it may not appear as funny to non-natives). It's funny because it appears grammatically "correct" but totally unnatural.

    I don't agree that "whom" is formal. I consider it a form of educated speech. Having said that, I consider "who" in this case (i.e., #1) to be standard speech, even for the highly educated.

    Here's a tip for knowing when to use "whom." See if you can reword the sentence to use "him" instead of who/whom; if so, use "whom." For example, "can I go to London with [he or him ? ]" To a native speaker (and an adept non-native), it will be immediately obvious that you would say ""can I go to London with him." Thus, you would use "whom" in the sentence "whom can I go to London with" (or knowing that "whom" is correct, "with whom I can go to London").
     
  11. Tazzler Senior Member

    Maryland
    American English
    The quote is rather unfair in its mockery of the "no prepositions at the end of a sentence" rule. He separated the phrasal verb "put up". The prepositions used in such phrasal verbs are not true prepositions but particles. In essence a verb like "put up" is a complete semantic unit that happens to be made up of two words (or more accurately and appropriately called) free morphemes and that expresses a unique meaning. The way Churchill spoke is just like saying "this is the wo I live with man".
     
  12. gengo

    gengo Senior Member

    Maybe you and I define the word formal differently, but I use it to mean that a word is suitable only in situations where a high register is called for. (Oops! I ended that sentence with a preposition.) If a group of bikers approaches you on the street and asks "Where is he?" with menacing looks, and your reply is "For whom are you looking?," I can assure you that "whom" will sound too formal and your sentence will not be well received by your audience. Therefore, in that particular context, I consider "whom" incorrect and, yes, even uneducated (in the sense of street smarts).

    Language is flexible, and our rules must be, too.
     
  13. RicardoElAbogado Senior Member

    SF Bay Area, California
    American English
    The supposed rule is artificial (devised by some unknown prescriptive grammarians), and the quote is a verbal monstrosity that purportedly obeys the rule. Yes, your're right that they aren't true prepositions and so it's an unfair mockery, but that's why it's so effective. Satire is rarely fair.
     

Share This Page