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Raison, reason, ..

Discussion in 'All Languages' started by ThomasK, Dec 20, 2012.

  1. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    In French one can use 'raison' in at least three ways:

    - reason vs. emotion
    - the reason for something
    - someone is right or wrong (il a raison)

    How about your language? Is there some link?

    Dutch:
    - rede
    - reden
    - (ik heb) gelijk

    German only has one:
    - Rede
    - Grund
    - recht
     
  2. Perseas Senior Member

    Athen
    Griechisch
    Isn 't "Vernunft" instead "Rede" in German?

    In Modern Greek:
    -λογική /loʝi'ci/ (reason) vs συναίσθημα /si'nesθima/ (emotion)
    -λόγος /'loɣos/
    -δίκιο /'ðicio/
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  3. Gavril Senior Member

    English, USA
    Finnish:

    järki
    "reason, sense"
    syy or aihe "reason, cause"
    oikea "right, correct" (olla oikeassa "to be right")


    Icelandic:

    skynsemi / vit "reason (= sense)"
    ástæða "reason (= cause)"
    réttur "right (= correct)"
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  4. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Aaarrrrrhhhh, you are quite right, my mistake (misled by wishful thinking once again!)

    In the meantime it becomes clear, I suppose, that there is no inherent link between the three terms.
     
  5. Tamar

    Tamar Senior Member

    Israel, Hebrew
    In Hebrew, there is really no connection between the three:
    Reason (vs.emostion) - הגיון [hegayon]
    Reason (to do something) - סיבה [siba]
    Il a raison - הוא צודק [hu tsodek] - he is right. [tsodek] comes from the word צדק [tsedek] which means justice​.
     
  6. ahmedcowon Senior Member

    In Arabic:

    Reason (vs.emostion): العقل /'aql/ (vs العاطفة /'aaTefah/)
    Reason (to do something): سبب /sabab/
    Reason (right): صواب /Sawaab/ or حق /haqq/
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  7. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Thanks, both. I just wonder: is there some kind of root in the words for 'reason' (vs. 'emotion') and 'reason for doing something' in Hebrew? And do the words in Arabic have some other meaning, some other derivations? 'haqq' sounds familiar for example. Something like 'certainty' - or is it knowledge? (But I was mixing it up with 'hadj', I think)
     
  8. Tamar

    Tamar Senior Member

    Israel, Hebrew
    Yes, Thomas, they do, as all Hebrew words have a root...
    The root for reason - הגיון [hegayon] - is הגי hgi
    The root for reason (to do something) - סיבה [siba] is סבב sbb

    I don't think these roots lead us any further. These roots are roots for other words as well, but non of which have anything to do with our topic; sbb can be the root for סביבה [sviva] enviironment, surroundings, להסתובב [lehistivev] to turn around, for example. הגי can be the root for להגות [lehagot] to pronounce. Also has to do with steering.
    However, there's the compound הוגה דיעות [hoge de'ot] - another word for philosopher, but I think that even here it's in meaning of pronouncing.
     
  9. ahmedcowon Senior Member

    Arabic is like Hebrew

    As Tamar wrote, you can derive many words with different meanings from the same 3-letter root

    the word [حق haqq] means 'right' or 'truth' from the root [حقق hqq], a derived word [حقق haqqaqa] means 'investigate', another derived word [حقيقي haqiqi] means 'real'

    the word [سبب sabab] means 'reason for' form the root [سبب sbb],
    another derived word [سب sabb] means 'insult'
     
  10. apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    Αlso αιτία /e'ti.a/ (fem.) or αίτιο /'eti.o/ (neut.) besides λόγος /'loɣos/
     
  11. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    Tagalog has word "dahilan" for Reason. The right reason is 'matuwid" and wrong one is "liko' "
     
  12. bibax Senior Member

    Czech
    Czech:

    1) rozum vs. cit = reason vs. emotion (prefix roz- = dis-, out- + um = skill; umění = ability, also art);
    2) důvod = reason for sth (verbal noun from dovoditi: prefix do- = in- + voditi = to lead, ducere, cf. to induce, induction);
    3) má pravdu = lit. s/he has truth;
     
  13. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Could you distinguish those along the lines in #1?
     
  14. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    Dahilan is Tagalog word for reason or( the cause of).when it is right, "Matuwid" and when it is wrong "liko' " or " Mali' ". You can say the reasons and distinguish them which one is right or wrong.
     
  15. Erick404 Senior Member

    Rio de Janeiro
    Portuguese - Brazil
    In Portuguese, we use razão for these 3 meanings, and also for ratio (the Latin origin being the same). I'm not sure, but doesn't the French raison have this meaning too?
     
  16. DenisBiH

    DenisBiH Senior Member

    Bosnian (in the same order you listed them)

    - razum
    - razlog
    - pravo
     
  17. Panceltic Junior Member

    Slovenian:

    - razum (reason as opposed to emotions)
    - razlog (reason to do something)
    - imeti prav (to be right, avoir raison)
     
  18. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Thanks, I suppose the 'um' refers to skills, as Bibax pointed out, but how about 'log' then?
     
  19. Panceltic Junior Member

    Yes, you're right, prav imaš! :) The word um means in fact the ability to think soundly or make sane judgments. Razumeti is 'to understand'. The -log part is a bit more difficult to explain. This root is also present in the verb razložiti (imperfective: razlagati) 'to explain' (it can also mean 'to put down something', especially in the sense of putting some goods down from the ship/train etc). It's just occured to me that it may have something to do with lagati 'to lie', laž 'a lie', but I'm not sure!
     
  20. Panceltic Junior Member

    Or maybe something to do with leči (root is leg-) 'to lie down' - there are similar constructions, e.g. teči 'to flow' (root is tek-) -> potok 'a brook' (po + tok), so raz + log would make sense! I will do a bit of research.
     
  21. bibax Senior Member

    Czech
    Slavic ložiti (-log-) and lagati have different roots.

    Razložiti/razlagati is a cognate with German liegen, legen (to lay, to lie).
    Lagati is a cognate with German lügen, leugnen (to lie).

    (Probably the English verb to lie is/are two originally different verbs, too.)
     
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  22. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Well, etymonline considers the two not linked, refers to two different pie. roots.
     
  23. bibax Senior Member

    Czech
    I should say that the intrinsic meaning of the verbal noun razlog (in Czech rozklad, we use another verb klásti = to lay, to put down, to place) is decomposition/analysis.

    Razlog is formally similar to German Zerlegung (< zer-legen, = dismantling, disassembly), however with different meaning.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  24. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    That is quite interesting, thanks a lot !
     
  25. Panceltic Junior Member

    Thanks, bibax, for clearing up the things! I think that razlog can very well be explain the way you put it. However, -ložiti (-log-i-ti) and leči (leg-ti) are the variations of the same root, like for example nositi (nos-i-ti) and nesti (nes-ti).
     

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