Reading, speaking, writing, saying, numbers - $1234.01, 200.134

Discussion in 'English Only' started by easychen, Feb 3, 2009.

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  1. easychen Senior Member

    Chinese
    Hi, everybody!

    Which of the following wording for $1234.01 is correct?

    1) Say U.S.Dollars One Thousand Two Hundred Thirty Four And Cents One Only.
    2) Say U.S.Dollars One Thousand Two Hundred Thirty Four And Cent One Only.

    And if none of the above is correct, pls tell me the correct one.

    Many thanks!
     
  2. cropje_jnr

    cropje_jnr Senior Member

    Wollongong, Australia
    English - Australia
    I would say: One thousand, two hundred and thirty-four US dollars and one cent.

    I'm not sure what you mean to convey by "say" and "only". Initial capitals are not necessary for figures such as these.

    As a general rule, although we write currency symbols before figures, the currency amount (dollars, euros, pounds, yen, etc.) are said after the figure orally.
     
  3. mathman Senior Member

    near boston
    English-American/New England
    In AE, it would be "One thousand two hundred thirty four dollars and one cent."

    However, if you are filling out a check, it would usually be written:

    "One thousand two hundred thirty four and 01/100" dollars (the word "dollars" is usually printed on the check, so you wouldn't have to write it).

    In AE, we often colloquially say "and" between "hundred" and "thirty four," but formal language leaves it out.

    colloquially: "one (or: "a") hundred and fifty dollars (or: "bucks") "

    formal: "one hundred fifty dollars" [sounds very stilted if you are talking to someone]

    And, of course, this may only apply to AE, not BE...
     
  4. natkretep

    natkretep Moderato con anima

    Singapore
    English (Singapore/UK), basic Chinese
    In BrE etc. the 'and' is required: one hundred and fifty; one thousand, two hundred and thirty-four. Also, for the latter, it is acceptable to say: twelve hundred and thirty-four. (In informal speech 'hundred and' might be omitted - eg 'I paid one fifty for the arm chair', meaning £/$150.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2009
  5. easychen Senior Member

    Chinese
    Thank you Mathman!
    And in this case, since "cent" follows up, I think "and" between "hundred" and "thirty four" should be left out, and placed between "thirty four" and "cent". What do you think?
     
  6. Starfrown

    Starfrown Senior Member

    Columbia, SC
    English - US
    "One thousand, two hundred (and) thirty-four dollars and one cent."

    I think it could go either way. I would probably be just as likely to use one as the other.
     
  7. JulianStuart

    JulianStuart Senior Member

    Sonoma County CA
    English (UK then US)
    I concur with natkretep - if the and is omitted between one hundred AND thirty four it will not be heard as BrE and will indicate non-BrE native speech - probably AE. In AE, as noted, it is optional.
     
  8. roxcyn

    roxcyn Senior Member

    USA
    American English [AmE]
    Just learnt something new ;). Thank you all! It's also valid to name it by the national currency name...in this case it is USD (=United States Dollar).

    1234.01 USD: One thousand two-hundred thirty-four USD (=United States dollar) and one cent.

    150 GBP: One hundred fifty GBP (=Great Britain Pound)

    Other options already noted were to use "dollars"/"bucks" for the USD options.

    Pablo
     
  9. mathman Senior Member

    near boston
    English-American/New England
    OK, then I have a question for you. How would you say, in (formal) BE

    A) 200.034

    B) 0.234

    ?
     
  10. natkretep

    natkretep Moderato con anima

    Singapore
    English (Singapore/UK), basic Chinese
    A.
    Two hundred point oh three four. (Also possible: replace oh with nought or zero)

    B.
    Nought point two three four. (Or, zero point ..., oh point ... or just point two ....)
     
  11. mathman Senior Member

    near boston
    English-American/New England
    In AE, we could read them the same way.

    But what about reading them using the usual decimal words "tenths," "hundredths," and "thousandths," or is that never done?
     
  12. TheAmzngTwinWndr

    TheAmzngTwinWndr Senior Member

    California, USA
    United States
    In AE I would say 'twenty-three point four cents' or 'twenty-three and four-tenths cents'

    Just an FYI (for your information) gas stations (and that's about it) always give the price to the third decimal point.
     
  13. JulianStuart

    JulianStuart Senior Member

    Sonoma County CA
    English (UK then US)
    200.14 is also frequently pronounced "two hundred point fourteen" or "two hundred and fourteen one-hundredths" in the US. However, 200.014 only (usually) occurs in the science realm where "two hundred point oh one four" would dominate. I've never heard the third decimal place pronounced as thousandths or even one-thousandths.
     
  14. mathman Senior Member

    near boston
    English-American/New England
    I agree that in science one would say "200 point oh one four." But my point about the word "and" is that in AE, 200.014 is read "two hundred and fourteen thousandths," whereas 0.214 is read "two hundred fourteen thousandths." My question about how these two decimal numbers are read in place-value notation in BE was prompted by the statement that the "and" is necessary when you say 214 as "two hundred and fourteen." How, then, do you read 0.214 (as a number of thousandths) and 200.014 as a number (using the word "thousandth") in BE? Or is it just not done?
     
  15. JulianStuart

    JulianStuart Senior Member

    Sonoma County CA
    English (UK then US)
    mathman,
    I think it's just never done in BE - using tenths was one of the first things I noticed when I moved to N. America. Even that was in the world of science where 2.1 had always been two point one in my lab training in the UK, in the US my PostDoc advisor called that two and a tenth! My surmise is that in BE (we need someone still living there to confirm!) that decimal numbers are pronounced Xpoint (then the numbers are just read in sequence). pi would be "three point one four one five nine" Numbers written with fractions such as 2 3/4 would still be pronounced two and three quarters and 2 15/100 would be two and fifteen hundredths (note - NOT fifteen one-hundredths). But when there's a decimal, the numbers thereafter are just recited.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  16. gasman Senior Member

    Canada, English
    With a British and Canadian experience, it would be two point one. If there is a dot I woulld always use that form.
     
  17. JulianStuart

    JulianStuart Senior Member

    Sonoma County CA
    English (UK then US)
    Thanks gasman - my first encounter with tenths was actually in Hamilton, Ontario, but my advisor was from the US :)
     
  18. mathman Senior Member

    near boston
    English-American/New England
    I would agree that the "point," followed by the recitation of digits, is most common in the US also (in my experience). The reason I am asking about hundredths, thousandths, and so on is that I teach a mathematics course for prospective elementary school teachers, and in the elementary schools in the US they make a big deal about "naming numbers" using place value, which has to use tenths and so on. When my students go out to teach they may have immigrant pupils who have learned the BE way of saying things, and if this eschews place-value naming, I would like my students to be aware of that.
     
  19. panjandrum

    panjandrum PongoMod

    Belfast, Ireland
    English-Ireland (top end)
    Please see the many previous threads on this topic.
    Here are some:
    Number: Writing numbers with and.
    Number: Writing numbers in words.

    Reading, speaking, numbers - How to say this number ,513,980
    Number - reading numbers

    How do you say the number 101.722?
    How to read the number
    How to read this number
    How to say this number ,513,980, in words ?

    ____________________________________

    I have never heard a decimal read as tenths, hundredths, thousandths etc...
    Those terms would of course be used if the number had been written in fraction form, but not as a decimal.

    How would those who use this terminology read 200.123456?
    Or is the fraction form used only for the first three decimal places?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  20. mathman Senior Member

    near boston
    English-American/New England
    I remind you that I am only familiar with AE.

    It is unusual to hear a decimal read using "ths" for anything except tenths, hundredths, and thousandths, though there are exceptions: 0.0001 would probably be called "one ten-thousandth."

    The general idea is to look at the last decimal place (on the right), and read the numbers to the right of the decimal place in terms of that:

    4.1 "four and one tenth"

    3.56 "three and fifty six hundredths"

    5.314 "five and three hundred fourteen thousandths"

    I doubt anyone would read 200.123456 except as 200 point (and then a list of the digits). But in principle, it could be read as "two hundred and one hundred twenty three thousand four hundred fifty six millionths." But if you did that, people would probably burst out laughing (with those understanding that you are correct probably laughing the hardest).
     
  21. JulianStuart

    JulianStuart Senior Member

    Sonoma County CA
    English (UK then US)
    mathman,
    Reading a number that has a decimal point in it as a series of fractions seems to be exclusively an AE practice. As you noted earlier "in the elementary schools in the US they make a big deal about "naming numbers" using place value, which has to use tenths and so on." I wonder why this developed. In the early 1950's when I was learning in the UK, we had decimal numbers and fractions as two distinct lesson items. Perhaps this elementary school practice is what is hindering the entire concept of decimal/metric systems in the US?? :)
     
  22. Lone Ranger Junior Member

    Mexican Spanish
    In machine shop is pretty common:
    .001" one thousand of an inch........
    .250" two hundred and fifty thousandths of an inch..
     
  23. mathman Senior Member

    near boston
    English-American/New England
    Oh, I doubt that, since the metric system is based on powers of 10.

    I suspect that what is hindering the acceptance of metric units in the US is just our general feeling that we are the elephant in the room, and no one is going to tell *us* what to do, dagnabbit!

    I remember when I was in high school (40 years ago), we were expected to "go metric" by the mid-70's at the latest, so there was this big push for everyone to learn to measure in meters, liters, and so on. There are a few places where this is done (liquor is generally measured in ml, for instance), but I suspect that we will never give up feet, inches, miles, ounces, gallons, and pounds.
     
  24. JulianStuart

    JulianStuart Senior Member

    Sonoma County CA
    English (UK then US)
    You're right, of course. I didn't immediately think of that example - isn't what is actually commonly used shortened to "thou' " in the shop? I see that almost as another "unit" : yard, foot, inch, thou' etc. akin to metre, kilometre and millimetre etc.
     
  25. natkretep

    natkretep Moderato con anima

    Singapore
    English (Singapore/UK), basic Chinese
    Just wanted to add that although in British usage, although you wouldn't normally convert decimal points to fractions, I suspect that 0.5 is an exception (particularly if you suspect that someone typed 0.5 because they were too lazy to get the ½ symbol). So if I see things like 'set the text to 1.5 spacing', I'd read it as 'one and a half'. Similarly 0.25 for ¼ and maybe 0.33 and 0.67.
     
  26. easychen Senior Member

    Chinese
    Hi mathman,
    But, can't "two hundred fourteen thousandths" be taken as 200/14000? I thought 0.214 would be read "two hundred fourteen one-thousandths.":D
     
  27. mathman Senior Member

    near boston
    English-American/New England
    To your first point, yes, sort of. 200/14000 could be read as you say, as could 2/114000. But if you say "two hundred fourteen thousandths," that only means 0.214 since it is assumed that you are giving a decimal number, and not naming a fraction (other than the fraction 214/1000).

    To your second point, in AE, I have never heard anyone say the "one."
     
  28. easychen Senior Member

    Chinese
    It's interesting, mathman.
    So, what am I supposed to say if I do refer to the fraction 200/14000?

    On a related note, I heard the inspector in the movie "valley of Elah" say "... every soldier whose blood alcohol is one one-thousandth over the legal limit.":)
     
  29. mathman Senior Member

    near boston
    English-American/New England
    I would say "the fraction 200 over 14,000," or, more precisely, "the fraction 1/70."

    Well, now I can say that I *have* heard someone say the "one." Language sure is complicated, eh?
     
  30. JamesM

    JamesM à la Mod

    Measuring things in 14,000ths of anything would be very odd in a decimal system. The assumption would always be for a decimal position unless otherwise clearly stated:

    tenths
    hundredths
    thousandths
    ten-thousandths
    hundred-thousandths
    millionths
     
  31. easychen Senior Member

    Chinese
    mathman,

    I've noticed a note in post #15 of Julian that said: NOT fifteen one-hundredths.
    What does he want to convey?
     
  32. easychen Senior Member

    Chinese
    Yes, I think the formula "the fration x over y" is a good expression for fractions.

    And also, I have something here excerpted from a book:
    1/200 one two-hundredth
    1/1000 one one-thousandth
    769/1000 seven hundred sixty-nine one-thousandths
    1/1500 one fifteen-hundredth
    1500/2111 fifteen hundred two-thousand one hundred-elevenths
    2001/2500 two thousand one twenty-five hundredths

    I've no idea if I can follow suit.:confused:
     
  33. mathman Senior Member

    near boston
    English-American/New England
    I don't think people would find these confusing. However, if you were to *say* "two hundred forty one thousandths," those who don't use "one-thousandth" will understand this as 0.241, whereas those who do use "one-thousandth" would understand it as 0.240.

    I don't think the "one" to represent the "thousandths" is necessary for clear communication, and since it is an additional word, I would not use it.

    The textbook I use for my course doesn't use the "one."
     
  34. JulianStuart

    JulianStuart Senior Member

    Sonoma County CA
    English (UK then US)
    That was with regard to my transition from the UK to the US. I had never heard fifteen one-hundredths before moving to the US and now I hear it a lot - particularly from TV weather forecasters* reporting rainfall amounts. In the US I've heard both versions, fifteen one-hundredths and fifteen hundredths.

    *They seem to have an English all of their own, so not to put too much weight on this piece of data :)
     
  35. easychen Senior Member

    Chinese
    Yeah, perhaps I need to ask someone if they are a "one" -user before talking about numbers with them!:D
     
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